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today on the somewhere in the skies

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podcast united states air force veteran

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and former employee at both area 51 and

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this is somewhere in the skies with ryan

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spread

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chris welcome for the very first time

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just somewhere in the skies

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i appreciate it man thanks for having me

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having me on i appreciate it

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my pleasure now you know a lot of us

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have been keeping up with everything

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going on at skinwalker ranch as of late

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uh you know we've got the television

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show the new owner has come out in the

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past few years um to tell us about

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what's been going on and we even learned

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that a government program

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funded the ranch for an amount of time

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which i know you're going to have some

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stuff to say about uh as we get into it

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but um

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let's tell our viewers and listeners if

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you don't mind maybe a little about who

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you are and your connection to both

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skinwalker ranch and also uh the nevada

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testing site and and area 51. this is

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crazy when i heard that not only had you

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worked out at groom lake but you also

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worked at this mysterious ranch in utah

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you're like a ufo podcast's dream guest

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so yeah man give us the origin story if

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you don't mind

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the right place right time i guess but

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no i

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um i was born and raised in a small town

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in kansas

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and uh basically when i got out of high

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school in 97 i joined the united states

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air force

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um to be a security forces police

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officer

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and that led me down to

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being stationed at nellis air force base

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in las vegas in 1998

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as a man based police officer there

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and i worked there

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from 2000 from from 1998 to 2006 active

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duty and during that time i was also

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a cadre instructor for gcts ground

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combat training squadron up in crete air

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force base

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uh nevada and then in 2006 to 2009 i

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went to the ima reserves for the air

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force

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and then in 2006 is when i actually got

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hired with a department of energy for

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and that kind of led me on the path

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my reputation in the air force

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it's you know nellis air force base is a

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very unique uh

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base because obviously nevada's got a

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lot of black world projects and stuff

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going on so if you're working security

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or law enforcement out there you kind of

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just kind of fall in line there's other

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options you know you can work metro las

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vegas or north town

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pd or you know there's tons of different

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jobs but i went down the d.o.e site

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because i had a lot of friends there and

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that's who that's who kind of got you in

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the doors you kind of get vouched in

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like your friends like hey you should

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apply and

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and so i started working there at the

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nevada test site for several years

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and then my wife who i met in the air

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force

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she was also a police officer at nellis

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and uh she got orders to maostrom air

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force base

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and so this is back in 2009 late 2009 so

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we

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go to mouse from air force base because

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she's from uh montana originally so we

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thought this was a good move

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and then we get to mouse from air force

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base and i don't know if you've ever

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been out there in great falls montana

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but it's it's almost as flat as kansas

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yeah but pretty bad yeah

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yeah

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still some good folks out there and we

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we enjoyed our time out there but she

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got pregnant with her first son

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and the air force was kind of downsizing

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at that time so they gave her the option

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to get out and she was like hey i don't

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want to be a military mom always

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deployed and never see my kid and i'm

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like hey i get that because there's a

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cop in the air force you're gone all the

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time

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so i'm like well that means i can better

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roll the dice back to vegas because

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that's where all my connections are at

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you know i i had a job lined up with the

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federal air mark for the federal

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marshals service in montana but this is

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in 2009 2010 there was a federal hiring

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freeze

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so then i started making phone calls

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back to las vegas and

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the first person i called was my air

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force supervisor i said you have any

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leads you know naturally i was trying to

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go back to the nevada test site and he

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was like well no everything's on hiring

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freeze but he said you might want to

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call this other guy who was another

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ex-air force advisor who worked for csc

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which had the contract for f51 so i call

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him up and as i'm driving to vegas i get

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hired pretty much

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in route to las vegas with csc for

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part-time work

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um until a full-time job opened up

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because i still had an active q

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clearance so that was a big positive so

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when i got to las vegas

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i ended up making some more phone calls

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and i reached another old air force

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buddy of mine

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who had this gig in utah or for bass and

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i applied and i

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got the job did the interview and i was

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working

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both places at the same time i was

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working for 51 part time

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and then full time for for bass i needed

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a full-time job because i had a kid on

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the way so

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that's kind of a long roundabout way and

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then

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um a full-time getting open with csc for

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the janet detail and i worked out for a

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while and actually quit bass

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or i quit bass went to csc full-time to

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work the janet detail

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and then some pay issues came up and i

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was forced to kind of go back to my

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previous job at bass that big aerospace

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and that's where i ended up and i stayed

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there

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until i left in 2018

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and then i came here to kansas and i'm

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still currently a federal police officer

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out here

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so that's kind of long

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long long drawn-out question but that's

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the

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my career in a nutshell

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it well it shows a dedication to um

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something you're clearly very good at to

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be hired by by places like this um two

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questions to kind of piggyback off of

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that if you don't mind um now for any of

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our listeners myself included um who

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aren't familiar with what a cue

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clearance is now we know there are

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different levels of classification um

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what exactly is

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a queue clearance or what can you tell

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us i guess of what acute clearance is

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and um well what was like a day-to-day

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working security out at area 51 with

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janet and everything

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well the acute first your first question

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if you're carrying the q clearance is

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kind of like just a does version of a

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top secret clearance it's got a little

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more

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clearance i guess because you go through

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a very very extensive background check

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and you go through a very extensive

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academy to be a police officer out there

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security police officer out there

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um so the washout rate's pretty high so

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when you get a queue it's like a golden

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ticket you can pretty much go anywhere

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and a lot of people once to get their

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queue they go right to the pentagon

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it's a pretty easy transition because

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it's a very it's like twenty thousand

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dollars to get a q clearance

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so if you have one it's it's beneficial

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hire people who already have a clearance

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or can get one so it's

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so q is just a version of the does

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top secret um basically

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um

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the gen detail was basically

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you report down to the mccarran airport

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and you work the the site there with

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some other guys and

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do it normally what you do at a security

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airport like tsa and that's kind of all

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i can really say about that but

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um yeah so you know the nevada test site

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is the sister site to 51 they're right

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next to each other they're like right

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next to each other

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so 51 is in a very strategic location

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because you have nevada test site

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and then you have

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creech air force base totem paw test

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range nellis air force base you know the

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natural surrounding mountains it's a

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perfect location to have a facility like

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that you know and it's all overlapping

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layers of security for basically one

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site and

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the nevada test site itself is the size

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of rhode island that's how much area of

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responsibility you have out there it's

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huge

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a lot a lot of stuff out there

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so um with the test site the nevada test

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site you sign lots of ndas going in and

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leaving that job so there's not much

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really i can say about working for the

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department of energy and

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working out there at the nts but i

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really enjoyed my time out there i have

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a lot of friends out there and had a lot

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of great experiences and was a part of a

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lot of

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special access programs out there and

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and a lot of projects and it was a

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really eye-opener experience you know

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and you know you think you do a lot of

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stuff for the dod for the military and

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then you go into other organizations

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like doe and it's like a whole different

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ball game basically

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right yeah and i mean the doe is kind of

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that um

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that that carrot that's always dangling

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in front of the ufo people because we're

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like they're the only ones that don't

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answer you know for like what they're

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doing and and it's understandable to an

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extent we we understand but um

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yeah yeah please oh i think what pete

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and i get a little flag for this but

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this is the reality the situation here

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it's like um

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you know we want disclosure and i'm for

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disclosure as well but

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when you have a certain faction of

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people asking like for the government to

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release all the data or maybe expose

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technology that we have and maybe it is

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alien i don't know i can't confirm that

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but what you're really doing is you're

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jeopardizing national security to a

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point because

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the overall objective for the united

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states air force and for the military

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industrial complex is air power global

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dominance that's the that's the overall

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objective and that's how the united

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states keeps control and keeps ahead of

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our enemies because it boils down to war

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you know this stuff boils down to war

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and with that loss of lives and

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00:09:57,509 --> 00:09:56,160
everything else that comes with war all

278
00:09:59,990 --> 00:09:57,519
the ugly stuff

279
00:10:01,750 --> 00:10:00,000
so the united states wants to be on the

280
00:10:04,310 --> 00:10:01,760
top edge of the

281
00:10:06,550 --> 00:10:04,320
the war fighting platform basically and

282
00:10:08,069 --> 00:10:06,560
so some of these locations like 51 or

283
00:10:09,829 --> 00:10:08,079
test site you know obviously this

284
00:10:12,389 --> 00:10:09,839
technology new technology is tested

285
00:10:15,509 --> 00:10:12,399
there so we can keep that edge

286
00:10:16,790 --> 00:10:15,519
so i'm all about having disclosure

287
00:10:19,110 --> 00:10:16,800
but also

288
00:10:20,310 --> 00:10:19,120
i think it's funny that people are still

289
00:10:21,590 --> 00:10:20,320
waiting for the government to give

290
00:10:23,670 --> 00:10:21,600
disclosure when it's the government

291
00:10:26,230 --> 00:10:23,680
that's been hiding disclosure for the

292
00:10:29,269 --> 00:10:26,240
last 70 years so who do we trust here

293
00:10:30,790 --> 00:10:29,279
this hand or this hand it's just like if

294
00:10:32,389 --> 00:10:30,800
you're waiting for the government to to

295
00:10:34,550 --> 00:10:32,399
release stuff

296
00:10:36,630 --> 00:10:34,560
good luck and then if they do release it

297
00:10:38,470 --> 00:10:36,640
is it going to be true data or is it

298
00:10:41,670 --> 00:10:38,480
going to be just a a whitewashed

299
00:10:43,750 --> 00:10:41,680
narrative to drown out the truth

300
00:10:45,750 --> 00:10:43,760
so if you're if you're like you know

301
00:10:47,269 --> 00:10:45,760
somewhere in the skies you're the name

302
00:10:49,269 --> 00:10:47,279
if you want to look for truth just go

303
00:10:51,509 --> 00:10:49,279
outside and observe the skies yourself

304
00:10:53,509 --> 00:10:51,519
and collect your own data you know yeah

305
00:10:55,430 --> 00:10:53,519
quote your own data and then don't wait

306
00:10:57,670 --> 00:10:55,440
for the government to to to tell you

307
00:10:58,870 --> 00:10:57,680
something i mean yeah i get to a point

308
00:11:01,110 --> 00:10:58,880
where people are like you know i pay

309
00:11:03,350 --> 00:11:01,120
taxpayer money and i want to learn about

310
00:11:04,949 --> 00:11:03,360
this and i totally understand that but

311
00:11:06,389 --> 00:11:04,959
there's a different game being played

312
00:11:08,550 --> 00:11:06,399
here that people don't really fully

313
00:11:10,870 --> 00:11:08,560
understand you need to take a step back

314
00:11:12,949 --> 00:11:10,880
and be like okay

315
00:11:15,670 --> 00:11:12,959
who are the people that are talking most

316
00:11:17,990 --> 00:11:15,680
about uaps being threats and stuff have

317
00:11:20,230 --> 00:11:18,000
any of them served have any of them hold

318
00:11:22,230 --> 00:11:20,240
this hell hold a top secret clearance or

319
00:11:25,190 --> 00:11:22,240
work for a three-letter agency

320
00:11:27,110 --> 00:11:25,200
i don't really see many of them that do

321
00:11:28,150 --> 00:11:27,120
so it's kind of like at the end of the

322
00:11:29,829 --> 00:11:28,160
day where do you want to get your

323
00:11:31,350 --> 00:11:29,839
information from

324
00:11:32,710 --> 00:11:31,360
it's better to go online and start

325
00:11:35,110 --> 00:11:32,720
making connections like with people like

326
00:11:36,550 --> 00:11:35,120
you and other investigators and and and

327
00:11:38,710 --> 00:11:36,560
putting the pieces together you know

328
00:11:40,790 --> 00:11:38,720
independently versus

329
00:11:42,550 --> 00:11:40,800
waiting for the government to hand out a

330
00:11:44,230 --> 00:11:42,560
silver platter uh

331
00:11:49,030 --> 00:11:44,240
i'm not

332
00:11:50,470 --> 00:11:49,040
yeah i'm kind of you're kind of jaded a

333
00:11:51,829 --> 00:11:50,480
little bit because of where i used to

334
00:11:54,389 --> 00:11:51,839
work at so when it comes to the whole

335
00:11:56,550 --> 00:11:54,399
uap topic i'm a little bit jaded and

336
00:11:58,870 --> 00:11:56,560
that it's just how it is i can't con i

337
00:12:00,949 --> 00:11:58,880
can't control what's up in the skies

338
00:12:02,550 --> 00:12:00,959
as an investigator but i can't control

339
00:12:03,590 --> 00:12:02,560
what's on my on the feet on the ground

340
00:12:05,670 --> 00:12:03,600
and that's what i focused on at

341
00:12:07,750 --> 00:12:05,680
skinwalker ranch when i got out there

342
00:12:09,829 --> 00:12:07,760
was the focus on what i can what do i

343
00:12:11,910 --> 00:12:09,839
have direct access and control of i

344
00:12:13,750 --> 00:12:11,920
can't control what's in the skies i can

345
00:12:15,509 --> 00:12:13,760
observe it but do i really know what's

346
00:12:16,710 --> 00:12:15,519
out there do i have the proper equipment

347
00:12:19,509 --> 00:12:16,720
or backing or

348
00:12:20,230 --> 00:12:19,519
or experts around to say yes or no it's

349
00:12:21,829 --> 00:12:20,240
just

350
00:12:23,269 --> 00:12:21,839
you have to really

351
00:12:24,710 --> 00:12:23,279
control what you can

352
00:12:26,629 --> 00:12:24,720
get your hands on

353
00:12:27,430 --> 00:12:26,639
yeah right and

354
00:12:31,030 --> 00:12:27,440
you're

355
00:12:32,949 --> 00:12:31,040
what i think the bulk of this

356
00:12:35,030 --> 00:12:32,959
conversation is going to be and that is

357
00:12:37,030 --> 00:12:35,040
skinwalker ranch i know a lot of our

358
00:12:39,110 --> 00:12:37,040
viewers and listeners are really excited

359
00:12:40,629 --> 00:12:39,120
to hear you talk about your experiences

360
00:12:42,230 --> 00:12:40,639
there which we'll get to we'll get there

361
00:12:44,389 --> 00:12:42,240
guys uh but

362
00:12:47,190 --> 00:12:44,399
before we move on from that chris i love

363
00:12:49,910 --> 00:12:47,200
you know with that i guess

364
00:12:51,990 --> 00:12:49,920
non-transparency or classification and

365
00:12:55,509 --> 00:12:52,000
national security that comes with things

366
00:12:57,110 --> 00:12:55,519
like uh nevada testing site and um area

367
00:12:59,269 --> 00:12:57,120
51

368
00:13:00,949 --> 00:12:59,279
when there's no transparency that's when

369
00:13:02,389 --> 00:13:00,959
people start

370
00:13:05,269 --> 00:13:02,399
making things up that's when people

371
00:13:07,430 --> 00:13:05,279
start creating rumors and a mythology is

372
00:13:09,990 --> 00:13:07,440
born out of these places that you've

373
00:13:11,910 --> 00:13:10,000
worked at so i mean

374
00:13:14,629 --> 00:13:11,920
what did you know about

375
00:13:16,550 --> 00:13:14,639
area 51 when you finally made it over

376
00:13:20,870 --> 00:13:16,560
there did you know about all the stuff

377
00:13:22,949 --> 00:13:20,880
bob lazar was talking about and the ufos

378
00:13:24,550 --> 00:13:22,959
yeah what can you tell us

379
00:13:25,910 --> 00:13:24,560
that is hilarious that you bring it up

380
00:13:28,710 --> 00:13:25,920
because i was going through my stuff

381
00:13:30,629 --> 00:13:28,720
today i'm i'm trying to set my office up

382
00:13:32,790 --> 00:13:30,639
here in in my new office where i can

383
00:13:34,629 --> 00:13:32,800
display my photography and i was going

384
00:13:37,509 --> 00:13:34,639
through some old books and i actually

385
00:13:39,750 --> 00:13:37,519
found this book that i bought back in 97

386
00:13:41,910 --> 00:13:39,760
which was the area 51 book this is

387
00:13:44,310 --> 00:13:41,920
before i joined the air force

388
00:13:46,230 --> 00:13:44,320
i read this book and i was like wow

389
00:13:48,710 --> 00:13:46,240
that's pretty cool and then i joined the

390
00:13:52,230 --> 00:13:48,720
air force and then i ended up working

391
00:13:54,230 --> 00:13:52,240
at these locations and i was like wow

392
00:13:55,350 --> 00:13:54,240
talk about like projecting you know your

393
00:13:56,310 --> 00:13:55,360
future

394
00:13:58,870 --> 00:13:56,320
um

395
00:14:01,509 --> 00:13:58,880
it was very strange now

396
00:14:04,150 --> 00:14:01,519
i'm honestly curious you know i love the

397
00:14:05,910 --> 00:14:04,160
ufo stuff and i like the paranormal

398
00:14:07,430 --> 00:14:05,920
research i like all that stuff i've

399
00:14:09,110 --> 00:14:07,440
always been into it

400
00:14:12,069 --> 00:14:09,120
so

401
00:14:13,829 --> 00:14:12,079
before

402
00:14:15,269 --> 00:14:13,839
when i first got to nellis air force

403
00:14:17,430 --> 00:14:15,279
base

404
00:14:19,990 --> 00:14:17,440
my first supervisor

405
00:14:22,389 --> 00:14:20,000
actually worked at 51 and this was back

406
00:14:24,629 --> 00:14:22,399
in 98 now i'll never forget he had a

407
00:14:27,269 --> 00:14:24,639
nokia cell phone on the flip the old

408
00:14:29,509 --> 00:14:27,279
school flip phones one and i'd be on i'd

409
00:14:31,110 --> 00:14:29,519
be on patrol with him and he would get a

410
00:14:32,629 --> 00:14:31,120
call on that cell phone and he would be

411
00:14:34,230 --> 00:14:32,639
gone for weeks

412
00:14:35,750 --> 00:14:34,240
and then he would call me up and say hey

413
00:14:36,790 --> 00:14:35,760
pick me up at mccarran airport and go

414
00:14:39,670 --> 00:14:36,800
pick him up

415
00:14:41,110 --> 00:14:39,680
and i would say hey you know um

416
00:14:44,069 --> 00:14:41,120
you know what what happened where were

417
00:14:47,350 --> 00:14:44,079
we at he wouldn't say nothing so uh i

418
00:14:49,670 --> 00:14:47,360
won't say his name but uh long story

419
00:14:51,590 --> 00:14:49,680
short we he had he got orders to korea

420
00:14:54,150 --> 00:14:51,600
air force base and this is back in

421
00:14:56,230 --> 00:14:54,160
1998.99

422
00:14:57,990 --> 00:14:56,240
so we had this big going away party for

423
00:14:59,829 --> 00:14:58,000
him at the deuce five which is across

424
00:15:02,230 --> 00:14:59,839
from ellis air force base it's like a

425
00:15:03,350 --> 00:15:02,240
local military hangout

426
00:15:04,870 --> 00:15:03,360
and uh

427
00:15:06,710 --> 00:15:04,880
we get him pretty liquored up or

428
00:15:08,230 --> 00:15:06,720
whatever and found there's a bunch of us

429
00:15:09,910 --> 00:15:08,240
young airmen that are around him you

430
00:15:11,269 --> 00:15:09,920
know and we all kind of knew he worked

431
00:15:12,949 --> 00:15:11,279
at 51

432
00:15:15,430 --> 00:15:12,959
and finally i asked him i said you know

433
00:15:16,629 --> 00:15:15,440
can you tell us anything about your time

434
00:15:17,910 --> 00:15:16,639
out there

435
00:15:22,710 --> 00:15:17,920
and

436
00:15:24,470 --> 00:15:22,720
the things i've seen out there we won't

437
00:15:27,110 --> 00:15:24,480
lose an air-to-air war in a thousand

438
00:15:29,670 --> 00:15:27,120
years and that's all he said

439
00:15:31,670 --> 00:15:29,680
and i was just like what

440
00:15:33,590 --> 00:15:31,680
and then that was it

441
00:15:35,509 --> 00:15:33,600
and i was just like wow

442
00:15:37,430 --> 00:15:35,519
but he was like dead set when he said

443
00:15:38,470 --> 00:15:37,440
when he said that and this is a 98

444
00:15:40,470 --> 00:15:38,480
remind you

445
00:15:43,030 --> 00:15:40,480
he was dead

446
00:15:44,790 --> 00:15:43,040
serious when he said that

447
00:15:46,310 --> 00:15:44,800
so it makes you wonder kind of like okay

448
00:15:47,749 --> 00:15:46,320
if there's technology that's out there

449
00:15:50,470 --> 00:15:47,759
let's say the tic tac is some of that

450
00:15:52,790 --> 00:15:50,480
technology or whatever

451
00:15:54,870 --> 00:15:52,800
you're looking at a situation where we

452
00:15:58,310 --> 00:15:54,880
might have technology that could replace

453
00:16:01,030 --> 00:15:58,320
the entire military fleet of aircraft

454
00:16:02,949 --> 00:16:01,040
we're talking trillions of dollars of

455
00:16:04,150 --> 00:16:02,959
money that would be

456
00:16:06,069 --> 00:16:04,160
just

457
00:16:08,069 --> 00:16:06,079
gone like maybe outdated aircraft

458
00:16:10,310 --> 00:16:08,079
replaced by some type of superior

459
00:16:11,749 --> 00:16:10,320
technology you know

460
00:16:13,509 --> 00:16:11,759
um not saying that

461
00:16:14,870 --> 00:16:13,519
is that but it just it makes me wonder

462
00:16:16,949 --> 00:16:14,880
like what if what if that is our

463
00:16:19,749 --> 00:16:16,959
technology you know but i also like to

464
00:16:21,430 --> 00:16:19,759
play on the fact that with the oceans

465
00:16:23,430 --> 00:16:21,440
you know what what do we know about our

466
00:16:26,389 --> 00:16:23,440
own oceans here you know what if this

467
00:16:27,910 --> 00:16:26,399
technology comes deep from a different

468
00:16:30,710 --> 00:16:27,920
species within our earth's crust or

469
00:16:33,910 --> 00:16:30,720
whatever and it's evolved into this

470
00:16:35,430 --> 00:16:33,920
uh hybrid uh humanoid where it has to

471
00:16:37,110 --> 00:16:35,440
come surface to refuel i don't i don't

472
00:16:38,710 --> 00:16:37,120
know but it makes me wonder our own

473
00:16:40,230 --> 00:16:38,720
oceans would be a good starting point to

474
00:16:41,269 --> 00:16:40,240
look at as well you know

475
00:16:42,949 --> 00:16:41,279
i don't know something that's always

476
00:16:45,030 --> 00:16:42,959
i've always kind of been curious myself

477
00:16:47,030 --> 00:16:45,040
about what's really down in those ocean

478
00:16:48,870 --> 00:16:47,040
and in the deep ocean you know what's

479
00:16:52,069 --> 00:16:48,880
what's our own birth the secrets of our

480
00:16:54,470 --> 00:16:52,079
own earth you know yep yeah i i tend to

481
00:16:57,030 --> 00:16:54,480
always uh keep that in mind that you

482
00:16:58,790 --> 00:16:57,040
know we're so trained on the skies and

483
00:17:00,949 --> 00:16:58,800
we could be out in the outer reaches of

484
00:17:02,550 --> 00:17:00,959
space when when we know so little about

485
00:17:05,909 --> 00:17:02,560
our very own planet and i think you're

486
00:17:07,270 --> 00:17:05,919
right there has to be some sort of um

487
00:17:09,590 --> 00:17:07,280
reason

488
00:17:12,069 --> 00:17:09,600
um logistically and mathematically

489
00:17:14,710 --> 00:17:12,079
statistically i guess that so many ufo

490
00:17:16,549 --> 00:17:14,720
sightings occur over bodies of water or

491
00:17:19,110 --> 00:17:16,559
are at least reported that way even in

492
00:17:21,029 --> 00:17:19,120
the military um and then you have places

493
00:17:23,990 --> 00:17:21,039
like uh i remember

494
00:17:26,870 --> 00:17:24,000
researching a place called uh otech like

495
00:17:29,110 --> 00:17:26,880
this underground or excuse me underwater

496
00:17:31,909 --> 00:17:29,120
military installation that had like a

497
00:17:35,029 --> 00:17:31,919
restricted air space that reaches like

498
00:17:37,190 --> 00:17:35,039
the outer atmosphere which is crazy to

499
00:17:39,669 --> 00:17:37,200
think like what could they be doing from

500
00:17:42,390 --> 00:17:39,679
underwater to the outer reaches of space

501
00:17:44,630 --> 00:17:42,400
what's being tested there flown there um

502
00:17:46,549 --> 00:17:44,640
it blows my mind man it really does but

503
00:17:49,750 --> 00:17:46,559
i knew a little bit about bob lazar

504
00:17:51,909 --> 00:17:49,760
obviously i saw all the when i was uh

505
00:17:54,150 --> 00:17:51,919
being working at nellis listening to the

506
00:17:56,070 --> 00:17:54,160
normal news i would see george knapp's

507
00:17:58,150 --> 00:17:56,080
uh broadcast sometimes when he'd recap

508
00:18:00,310 --> 00:17:58,160
bob lazar story and i was very intrigued

509
00:18:01,830 --> 00:18:00,320
this is all before even working at these

510
00:18:03,510 --> 00:18:01,840
locations you know

511
00:18:06,549 --> 00:18:03,520
my kind of plan when i was in the air

512
00:18:08,630 --> 00:18:06,559
force was to either stay in for 20

513
00:18:10,310 --> 00:18:08,640
or get out and move back to kansas or

514
00:18:11,909 --> 00:18:10,320
something but i ended up staying in las

515
00:18:14,150 --> 00:18:11,919
vegas for 20 years and working some of

516
00:18:15,590 --> 00:18:14,160
these sites that led me down this rabbit

517
00:18:17,990 --> 00:18:15,600
hole basically

518
00:18:19,750 --> 00:18:18,000
and um but yeah i was intrigued by his

519
00:18:21,190 --> 00:18:19,760
story as well and it made me and

520
00:18:23,750 --> 00:18:21,200
actually working there some things that

521
00:18:25,430 --> 00:18:23,760
bob says makes total sense i don't deny

522
00:18:27,590 --> 00:18:25,440
one bit that he's probably worth there

523
00:18:29,350 --> 00:18:27,600
you know but what projects and where

524
00:18:31,110 --> 00:18:29,360
only he would know that that's how the

525
00:18:33,270 --> 00:18:31,120
that's kind of how that area works it's

526
00:18:35,430 --> 00:18:33,280
overlapping layers of

527
00:18:37,430 --> 00:18:35,440
of secrecy where me and you can work in

528
00:18:39,029 --> 00:18:37,440
the same location for 20 years but we

529
00:18:41,270 --> 00:18:39,039
would neither none of us would know what

530
00:18:42,549 --> 00:18:41,280
we're working on it's just yeah it's a

531
00:18:44,230 --> 00:18:42,559
that's how it's set up to keep the

532
00:18:45,909 --> 00:18:44,240
secrecy you know

533
00:18:47,990 --> 00:18:45,919
um

534
00:18:49,830 --> 00:18:48,000
so yeah there's definitely some truth to

535
00:18:51,270 --> 00:18:49,840
his stories i i would definitely believe

536
00:18:52,789 --> 00:18:51,280
you know i guess when it boils down

537
00:18:54,470 --> 00:18:52,799
because i always get people online to

538
00:18:55,669 --> 00:18:54,480
ask me questions you know what do you

539
00:18:56,950 --> 00:18:55,679
think of this person what do you think

540
00:18:58,789 --> 00:18:56,960
of that person

541
00:19:00,710 --> 00:18:58,799
and unless i meet them in person i

542
00:19:01,750 --> 00:19:00,720
really don't know what to say because

543
00:19:03,190 --> 00:19:01,760
it's like

544
00:19:05,669 --> 00:19:03,200
if you want to judge somebody's

545
00:19:07,669 --> 00:19:05,679
credibility judge the person's character

546
00:19:10,150 --> 00:19:07,679
if their character is flawed

547
00:19:12,710 --> 00:19:10,160
and you're working in these type of

548
00:19:14,310 --> 00:19:12,720
these areas there might be some

549
00:19:16,150 --> 00:19:14,320
some questions that would arise like are

550
00:19:17,669 --> 00:19:16,160
they being truthful you know what's yeah

551
00:19:19,590 --> 00:19:17,679
what's the real objective here what's

552
00:19:20,950 --> 00:19:19,600
the narrative they're trying to push

553
00:19:23,590 --> 00:19:20,960
i mean bob's story's been pretty much

554
00:19:25,110 --> 00:19:23,600
the same the whole the whole time so

555
00:19:28,150 --> 00:19:25,120
yeah i would like to do a face to face

556
00:19:29,110 --> 00:19:28,160
with him maybe one day and just talk

557
00:19:32,390 --> 00:19:29,120
yeah

558
00:19:33,830 --> 00:19:32,400
cool you know but

559
00:19:36,830 --> 00:19:33,840
i mean i don't know

560
00:19:40,710 --> 00:19:36,840
it definitely has uh

561
00:19:42,470 --> 00:19:40,720
yeah well i mean kind of i guess playing

562
00:19:44,390 --> 00:19:42,480
off of that you know

563
00:19:46,710 --> 00:19:44,400
people people uh

564
00:19:48,310 --> 00:19:46,720
a lot of questions online when people

565
00:19:49,510 --> 00:19:48,320
saw that you were coming on the show

566
00:19:51,029 --> 00:19:49,520
they wanted to know what you thought

567
00:19:53,270 --> 00:19:51,039
about bob lazar they wanted to know what

568
00:19:55,510 --> 00:19:53,280
you think of uh robert bigelow and this

569
00:19:57,510 --> 00:19:55,520
that this that and um we're slowly

570
00:19:58,870 --> 00:19:57,520
inching towards skinwalker ranch guys i

571
00:20:01,669 --> 00:19:58,880
promise we're getting there we're

572
00:20:04,390 --> 00:20:01,679
getting there um so

573
00:20:07,029 --> 00:20:04,400
i guess something you told me offline

574
00:20:10,630 --> 00:20:07,039
which i found really interesting is you

575
00:20:12,950 --> 00:20:10,640
actually learned about skinwalker um the

576
00:20:14,630 --> 00:20:12,960
phenomenon and possibly the wrench

577
00:20:17,190 --> 00:20:14,640
correct me if i'm wrong um while you

578
00:20:19,270 --> 00:20:17,200
were still employed at area 51 before

579
00:20:21,430 --> 00:20:19,280
you even got over there is that true

580
00:20:22,549 --> 00:20:21,440
that you you learned about it there can

581
00:20:25,270 --> 00:20:22,559
you tell us a little bit about that

582
00:20:27,350 --> 00:20:25,280
story i never knew what skin water skin

583
00:20:29,190 --> 00:20:27,360
walker ranch was at all but

584
00:20:30,950 --> 00:20:29,200
i learned about skin walkers at the

585
00:20:32,549 --> 00:20:30,960
nevada test site that's where i learned

586
00:20:33,590 --> 00:20:32,559
about skinwalkers

587
00:20:34,710 --> 00:20:33,600
um

588
00:20:35,990 --> 00:20:34,720
kind of like when you go through the

589
00:20:37,830 --> 00:20:36,000
academy there

590
00:20:39,909 --> 00:20:37,840
and you start working in these areas you

591
00:20:42,230 --> 00:20:39,919
have some down time so you start asking

592
00:20:43,669 --> 00:20:42,240
some of the older guard you know stories

593
00:20:45,909 --> 00:20:43,679
hey have you seen things out here in the

594
00:20:48,310 --> 00:20:45,919
sky have you have you seen this have you

595
00:20:52,390 --> 00:20:48,320
seen that for the most part people are

596
00:20:53,830 --> 00:20:52,400
pretty quiet about it you know um but

597
00:20:55,430 --> 00:20:53,840
there was a couple guys who were like no

598
00:20:57,590 --> 00:20:55,440
we have seen some pretty stuff and we

599
00:20:59,190 --> 00:20:57,600
have documented it i'm like what

600
00:21:01,110 --> 00:20:59,200
and one of the guys said that they

601
00:21:03,029 --> 00:21:01,120
documented like a deer

602
00:21:04,149 --> 00:21:03,039
standing up on two legs and walking

603
00:21:06,390 --> 00:21:04,159
around

604
00:21:08,950 --> 00:21:06,400
and the term that he said was oh yeah i

605
00:21:10,950 --> 00:21:08,960
was a skinwalker i'm like what and so

606
00:21:13,190 --> 00:21:10,960
that kind of led me down why would there

607
00:21:15,750 --> 00:21:13,200
be skinwalkers out here and then he was

608
00:21:17,909 --> 00:21:15,760
like well it's because there's a lot of

609
00:21:19,430 --> 00:21:17,919
native history out here i'm like where

610
00:21:21,430 --> 00:21:19,440
and so sure enough he showed me on a

611
00:21:23,510 --> 00:21:21,440
sunday we drove out there there's an

612
00:21:25,029 --> 00:21:23,520
area with petroglyphs that go back 10

613
00:21:26,470 --> 00:21:25,039
000 years ago

614
00:21:28,830 --> 00:21:26,480
oh wow so

615
00:21:31,270 --> 00:21:28,840
and so it kind of puts

616
00:21:33,350 --> 00:21:31,280
uh like puts you back like what was

617
00:21:36,230 --> 00:21:33,360
going on out here ten thousand years ago

618
00:21:38,149 --> 00:21:36,240
i know in the 1800s um the paiute and

619
00:21:40,470 --> 00:21:38,159
the western shoshone were documented and

620
00:21:43,110 --> 00:21:40,480
that in the nevada test site before uh

621
00:21:44,870 --> 00:21:43,120
it was taken over but um ten thousand

622
00:21:46,230 --> 00:21:44,880
year old petroglyphs out there so it

623
00:21:47,750 --> 00:21:46,240
makes you wonder

624
00:21:49,110 --> 00:21:47,760
you know what what was going on out

625
00:21:50,549 --> 00:21:49,120
there so obviously something because

626
00:21:52,310 --> 00:21:50,559
they had some weird weird things

627
00:21:54,710 --> 00:21:52,320
happening so i find it interesting that

628
00:21:56,549 --> 00:21:54,720
a lot of these places like skinwalker

629
00:21:58,710 --> 00:21:56,559
test site a lot of other places have a

630
00:22:01,029 --> 00:21:58,720
lot of native american history uh

631
00:22:03,350 --> 00:22:01,039
aligned with it

632
00:22:05,669 --> 00:22:03,360
right and that's um a big part of what i

633
00:22:07,110 --> 00:22:05,679
want to ask you about um your time at

634
00:22:09,430 --> 00:22:07,120
the ranch uh

635
00:22:11,590 --> 00:22:09,440
when we when we get there so let's set

636
00:22:12,870 --> 00:22:11,600
it up um you know like you said you kind

637
00:22:15,270 --> 00:22:12,880
of flip-flop back and forth from

638
00:22:16,470 --> 00:22:15,280
skinwalker back to nellis that skin walk

639
00:22:18,789 --> 00:22:16,480
out um

640
00:22:21,270 --> 00:22:18,799
how did you

641
00:22:23,190 --> 00:22:21,280
find out about the job with bigelow did

642
00:22:25,750 --> 00:22:23,200
he reach out to you did you reach out to

643
00:22:27,190 --> 00:22:25,760
him um how did that all go down and

644
00:22:29,190 --> 00:22:27,200
what'd you think when you first learned

645
00:22:31,510 --> 00:22:29,200
about what you'd be doing there

646
00:22:33,190 --> 00:22:31,520
well it was uh i

647
00:22:35,029 --> 00:22:33,200
i just called the old buddy of mine who

648
00:22:36,630 --> 00:22:35,039
i knew in the air force and i said hey i

649
00:22:38,710 --> 00:22:36,640
heard you got some project going on for

650
00:22:41,430 --> 00:22:38,720
an aerospace company

651
00:22:43,669 --> 00:22:41,440
and he said well yeah kinda and and then

652
00:22:45,430 --> 00:22:43,679
we started talking and then we met face

653
00:22:47,990 --> 00:22:45,440
to face we met face to face actually

654
00:22:50,710 --> 00:22:48,000
where they broke ground at the new va uh

655
00:22:52,710 --> 00:22:50,720
medical center in las vegas we met we

656
00:22:54,710 --> 00:22:52,720
met in an old parking lot out there and

657
00:22:56,230 --> 00:22:54,720
on the dirt it was like a movie or

658
00:22:57,750 --> 00:22:56,240
whatever like you know and we're talking

659
00:23:00,149 --> 00:22:57,760
about this and it kind of gave me the

660
00:23:01,990 --> 00:23:00,159
skinny of what the job entailed but he

661
00:23:03,990 --> 00:23:02,000
didn't go too much in depth because i

662
00:23:05,990 --> 00:23:04,000
still had to do an interview with column

663
00:23:08,789 --> 00:23:06,000
and and other people

664
00:23:10,390 --> 00:23:08,799
eric and so that's i applied and uh he

665
00:23:11,830 --> 00:23:10,400
kind of vouched for me and then i had a

666
00:23:14,149 --> 00:23:11,840
meeting with callum

667
00:23:16,149 --> 00:23:14,159
and colin asked me you know typical

668
00:23:19,029 --> 00:23:16,159
security questions

669
00:23:20,310 --> 00:23:19,039
and then he asked me um if i was open to

670
00:23:24,149 --> 00:23:20,320
the paranormal

671
00:23:25,830 --> 00:23:24,159
and at first i was like what do i say

672
00:23:30,789 --> 00:23:25,840
because

673
00:23:31,909 --> 00:23:30,799
into the paranormal right and i yeah i

674
00:23:33,669 --> 00:23:31,919
think they asked me you know have i had

675
00:23:34,950 --> 00:23:33,679
any experiences and i said yeah actually

676
00:23:37,270 --> 00:23:34,960
i've had

677
00:23:39,029 --> 00:23:37,280
and um coming from the nevada test site

678
00:23:41,750 --> 00:23:39,039
we have acute clearance you you don't

679
00:23:43,029 --> 00:23:41,760
talk about seeing ufos or

680
00:23:44,710 --> 00:23:43,039
ghosts or anything like that because

681
00:23:46,390 --> 00:23:44,720
they can pull your clearance because

682
00:23:48,230 --> 00:23:46,400
you're dealing with nuclear security so

683
00:23:50,470 --> 00:23:48,240
they take that very seriously

684
00:23:52,230 --> 00:23:50,480
you have to walk a line there and that's

685
00:23:54,549 --> 00:23:52,240
i can't i don't even want to i can't

686
00:23:56,230 --> 00:23:54,559
explain it to you but

687
00:23:58,070 --> 00:23:56,240
it's very stressful

688
00:24:00,070 --> 00:23:58,080
but so i i say no i'm going to ask

689
00:24:01,029 --> 00:24:00,080
honestly and i said yeah i i'm very open

690
00:24:02,390 --> 00:24:01,039
to that

691
00:24:04,549 --> 00:24:02,400
and i shared with him some of my

692
00:24:06,549 --> 00:24:04,559
experiences in kansas and even a couple

693
00:24:08,070 --> 00:24:06,559
of my experiences at in

694
00:24:11,430 --> 00:24:08,080
nellis air force base there's a hangar

695
00:24:13,110 --> 00:24:11,440
called uh 858 propulsion building and it

696
00:24:14,950 --> 00:24:13,120
has some ghost paranormal stuff

697
00:24:16,230 --> 00:24:14,960
happening there and sure enough we went

698
00:24:18,470 --> 00:24:16,240
there with some other airmen this is

699
00:24:20,230 --> 00:24:18,480
back in 2000.

700
00:24:21,269 --> 00:24:20,240
four or five maybe

701
00:24:22,630 --> 00:24:21,279
anyways

702
00:24:25,350 --> 00:24:22,640
and we had an experience there and there

703
00:24:27,350 --> 00:24:25,360
was like 10 witnesses that all saw it it

704
00:24:29,350 --> 00:24:27,360
was it was crazy but so i was very open

705
00:24:32,710 --> 00:24:29,360
to the interview and i told him yeah i'm

706
00:24:34,789 --> 00:24:32,720
open and he kind of nodded his head and

707
00:24:36,470 --> 00:24:34,799
i left and my buddy came out says hey

708
00:24:38,470 --> 00:24:36,480
you got the job and i'm like okay cool

709
00:24:40,950 --> 00:24:38,480
when do i start and that was it

710
00:24:42,789 --> 00:24:40,960
so i started at that first you know in

711
00:24:45,990 --> 00:24:42,799
in vegas and then

712
00:24:47,909 --> 00:24:46,000
um back at the ranch uh it was two

713
00:24:49,750 --> 00:24:47,919
people out there at the time so you'd

714
00:24:51,750 --> 00:24:49,760
have two officers out there

715
00:24:53,110 --> 00:24:51,760
so one guy would drive up to to release

716
00:24:54,230 --> 00:24:53,120
the other guy another guy would go back

717
00:24:56,230 --> 00:24:54,240
so every week there was somebody

718
00:24:58,470 --> 00:24:56,240
different basically okay

719
00:25:01,269 --> 00:24:58,480
so in october of 2010 was when i first

720
00:25:02,870 --> 00:25:01,279
drove up there from vegas

721
00:25:03,830 --> 00:25:02,880
to the ranch

722
00:25:07,590 --> 00:25:03,840
and

723
00:25:09,669 --> 00:25:07,600
who hired me was kind of the guy who

724
00:25:11,110 --> 00:25:09,679
kind of trained me up a little bit

725
00:25:13,190 --> 00:25:11,120
and we it was

726
00:25:14,870 --> 00:25:13,200
that we didn't really have an sop or

727
00:25:16,630 --> 00:25:14,880
standard operating procedure of what to

728
00:25:18,390 --> 00:25:16,640
do it was kind of like

729
00:25:20,470 --> 00:25:18,400
okay our job is to protect the property

730
00:25:22,870 --> 00:25:20,480
i get that secure the site

731
00:25:24,470 --> 00:25:22,880
i get it i've also collect data report

732
00:25:27,590 --> 00:25:24,480
anything unusual i'm like okay what do

733
00:25:29,909 --> 00:25:27,600
you mean unusual you know and this is

734
00:25:31,590 --> 00:25:29,919
back in 2010 i haven't i didn't read the

735
00:25:32,950 --> 00:25:31,600
uh hunt for the skinwalker book until a

736
00:25:34,630 --> 00:25:32,960
couple months after i've been working

737
00:25:37,110 --> 00:25:34,640
there because i didn't want to have any

738
00:25:39,510 --> 00:25:37,120
pre-notion in my mind of something that

739
00:25:42,149 --> 00:25:39,520
i could possibly experience smart yeah

740
00:25:43,909 --> 00:25:42,159
so i remember when i applied for the job

741
00:25:45,350 --> 00:25:43,919
and i found out if that i was going to

742
00:25:46,710 --> 00:25:45,360
this ranch in utah i tried to look

743
00:25:48,789 --> 00:25:46,720
online for something i couldn't find

744
00:25:50,789 --> 00:25:48,799
anything really about skin walker ranch

745
00:25:52,230 --> 00:25:50,799
because back in 2010

746
00:25:54,390 --> 00:25:52,240
there was only there was like one

747
00:25:56,310 --> 00:25:54,400
website and

748
00:25:57,350 --> 00:25:56,320
like one or two maybe youtube videos

749
00:26:00,070 --> 00:25:57,360
that was it

750
00:26:02,710 --> 00:26:00,080
yeah and so i'm like oh what the hell

751
00:26:04,230 --> 00:26:02,720
i'll never forget this my dad

752
00:26:06,310 --> 00:26:04,240
who's kind of full he followed my whole

753
00:26:07,269 --> 00:26:06,320
career in the air force and the test

754
00:26:09,350 --> 00:26:07,279
site

755
00:26:11,350 --> 00:26:09,360
and then 51 and then you know finally at

756
00:26:12,950 --> 00:26:11,360
skinwalker i sent him a copy of the hunt

757
00:26:14,470 --> 00:26:12,960
for the skinwalker book

758
00:26:16,230 --> 00:26:14,480
and i remember him calling me up one day

759
00:26:18,950 --> 00:26:16,240
and he goes and this is the only time i

760
00:26:22,789 --> 00:26:18,960
get concerned in his voice he goes son

761
00:26:25,990 --> 00:26:24,630
and i was like well dad i don't know i

762
00:26:28,070 --> 00:26:26,000
just want to go down the rabbit hole and

763
00:26:30,870 --> 00:26:28,080
see how far it goes down and

764
00:26:32,470 --> 00:26:30,880
he was like just be careful and uh

765
00:26:34,950 --> 00:26:32,480
i just remember he the sound of his

766
00:26:37,029 --> 00:26:34,960
voice he seemed like he was nervous

767
00:26:38,630 --> 00:26:37,039
i'm like i've deployed overseas you know

768
00:26:39,669 --> 00:26:38,640
and this is the time he sounds nervous

769
00:26:41,029 --> 00:26:39,679
you know

770
00:26:43,590 --> 00:26:41,039
everybody

771
00:26:45,669 --> 00:26:43,600
for everything you've gone through

772
00:26:47,669 --> 00:26:45,679
that's when he's nervous yeah yeah so

773
00:26:49,510 --> 00:26:47,679
then and and then that's kind of what

774
00:26:51,590 --> 00:26:49,520
started my time at skinwalker was in

775
00:26:54,390 --> 00:26:51,600
october of 2010

776
00:26:56,710 --> 00:26:54,400
and uh yeah that's where it all started

777
00:26:58,310 --> 00:26:56,720
okay so um

778
00:27:00,950 --> 00:26:58,320
well let's talk about that time at the

779
00:27:02,470 --> 00:27:00,960
ranch then um are there what were some

780
00:27:04,230 --> 00:27:02,480
of the um

781
00:27:06,630 --> 00:27:04,240
the most compelling things you came

782
00:27:09,350 --> 00:27:06,640
across there obviously people want to

783
00:27:11,190 --> 00:27:09,360
hear the stories of what occurs on this

784
00:27:13,909 --> 00:27:11,200
ranch what is someone like you who spent

785
00:27:15,750 --> 00:27:13,919
weeks on end there uh i'm sure there's

786
00:27:18,389 --> 00:27:15,760
days where absolutely nothing happens

787
00:27:20,710 --> 00:27:18,399
you're bored out of your mind doing your

788
00:27:23,190 --> 00:27:20,720
rounds and everything but i know you've

789
00:27:25,269 --> 00:27:23,200
had some pretty crazy stuff happen there

790
00:27:26,549 --> 00:27:25,279
too so yeah anything you want to share

791
00:27:27,430 --> 00:27:26,559
with us chris

792
00:27:28,950 --> 00:27:27,440
sure

793
00:27:30,389 --> 00:27:28,960
you know i've been

794
00:27:32,630 --> 00:27:30,399
kind of hesitant about some of my

795
00:27:33,750 --> 00:27:32,640
experiences um

796
00:27:35,350 --> 00:27:33,760
because i don't like to say things

797
00:27:36,950 --> 00:27:35,360
unless i can back them up with either a

798
00:27:38,870 --> 00:27:36,960
second witness or

799
00:27:41,350 --> 00:27:38,880
photographic evidence

800
00:27:43,590 --> 00:27:41,360
or some type of physical evidence so

801
00:27:46,230 --> 00:27:43,600
i would say personally the the

802
00:27:48,470 --> 00:27:46,240
experience that stands out the most is a

803
00:27:50,710 --> 00:27:48,480
large wolf or k-9 experience i had in

804
00:27:51,990 --> 00:27:50,720
october it was actually my second week

805
00:27:53,029 --> 00:27:52,000
in october

806
00:27:54,470 --> 00:27:53,039
um

807
00:27:56,549 --> 00:27:54,480
out there on the property when myself

808
00:27:58,630 --> 00:27:56,559
and another officer

809
00:28:00,870 --> 00:27:58,640
we had this routine down

810
00:28:01,750 --> 00:28:00,880
where one guy would go out for a morning

811
00:28:03,510 --> 00:28:01,760
run

812
00:28:06,230 --> 00:28:03,520
around the property and kind of get the

813
00:28:07,909 --> 00:28:06,240
eyes on of the environment kind of get a

814
00:28:09,669 --> 00:28:07,919
a judge of how the day is going to go

815
00:28:11,190 --> 00:28:09,679
where we're going to go check out and

816
00:28:14,070 --> 00:28:11,200
the other guy would do the report from

817
00:28:16,470 --> 00:28:14,080
the night before and get that sent up

818
00:28:18,470 --> 00:28:16,480
and then you know around 11 noon we'd

819
00:28:20,710 --> 00:28:18,480
pack up our gear and hike out and go

820
00:28:22,230 --> 00:28:20,720
explore and look for stuff and

821
00:28:23,750 --> 00:28:22,240
do evp sessions with some of the

822
00:28:25,750 --> 00:28:23,760
homesteads and

823
00:28:28,149 --> 00:28:25,760
uh take pictures and that's what kind of

824
00:28:29,590 --> 00:28:28,159
got my photography going was at the time

825
00:28:31,750 --> 00:28:29,600
there there was some questionable

826
00:28:33,909 --> 00:28:31,760
pictures being taken at homestead too

827
00:28:35,269 --> 00:28:33,919
that for me was was backstage back this

828
00:28:37,750 --> 00:28:35,279
whole backscatter which is flat

829
00:28:39,750 --> 00:28:37,760
photography in a dusty environment

830
00:28:41,830 --> 00:28:39,760
and uh i was like that's not orbs those

831
00:28:43,590 --> 00:28:41,840
are dust particles and i i kind of just

832
00:28:45,669 --> 00:28:43,600
i kind of debunked it with my own camera

833
00:28:47,510 --> 00:28:45,679
because at the time i had a more uh more

834
00:28:49,350 --> 00:28:47,520
high def camera and then i kind of

835
00:28:51,669 --> 00:28:49,360
carried my camera my own personal camera

836
00:28:53,830 --> 00:28:51,679
is a secondary ways to document the

837
00:28:56,230 --> 00:28:53,840
phenomena as best i could

838
00:28:58,549 --> 00:28:56,240
and um anyways so back to the wolf story

839
00:29:00,549 --> 00:28:58,559
on this particular day the other officer

840
00:29:02,710 --> 00:29:00,559
came back from the run

841
00:29:05,110 --> 00:29:02,720
and he was like hey i found some weird

842
00:29:06,549 --> 00:29:05,120
prince some large canine prints on top

843
00:29:08,230 --> 00:29:06,559
of the mesa

844
00:29:09,830 --> 00:29:08,240
and i'm like okay let's go check it out

845
00:29:11,750 --> 00:29:09,840
and i'm from kansas and grew up on a

846
00:29:14,310 --> 00:29:11,760
farm where we had horses and all you

847
00:29:16,710 --> 00:29:14,320
know all kinds of animals you can think

848
00:29:18,549 --> 00:29:16,720
of we've done middle nowhere

849
00:29:20,310 --> 00:29:18,559
and so we go out there and we see these

850
00:29:22,230 --> 00:29:20,320
large looks like

851
00:29:24,070 --> 00:29:22,240
it looks like a wolf print big big size

852
00:29:25,510 --> 00:29:24,080
wolf print but what made it weird is

853
00:29:27,350 --> 00:29:25,520
that there was like a section where it

854
00:29:28,389 --> 00:29:27,360
looked like this animal was walking on

855
00:29:30,789 --> 00:29:28,399
two feet

856
00:29:33,590 --> 00:29:30,799
they had like this three foot stride

857
00:29:35,430 --> 00:29:33,600
and it would go to four feet two feet it

858
00:29:38,070 --> 00:29:35,440
was it was weird it didn't make any

859
00:29:41,669 --> 00:29:38,080
sense and at the time we had two black

860
00:29:43,510 --> 00:29:41,679
labs and a border collie doll we have

861
00:29:45,909 --> 00:29:43,520
three dogs with us

862
00:29:47,830 --> 00:29:45,919
and the labs prints and these are

863
00:29:50,149 --> 00:29:47,840
full-grown labs the lab's prints and

864
00:29:53,190 --> 00:29:50,159
some of the pictures i posted before

865
00:29:55,590 --> 00:29:53,200
um this these wolf prints dwarfed the

866
00:29:57,909 --> 00:29:55,600
lab prince and you can see the the the

867
00:29:59,750 --> 00:29:57,919
three foot strikes i threw a ruler down

868
00:30:00,710 --> 00:29:59,760
to kind of measure it

869
00:30:05,430 --> 00:30:00,720
so

870
00:30:06,950 --> 00:30:05,440
them and say hey we've got

871
00:30:08,789 --> 00:30:06,960
a possible weird animal out here or

872
00:30:10,950 --> 00:30:08,799
something his advice is you know be be

873
00:30:13,029 --> 00:30:10,960
careful but document the best you can

874
00:30:15,430 --> 00:30:13,039
i'm like okay roger that so

875
00:30:16,789 --> 00:30:15,440
me and my a colleague we're like no we

876
00:30:18,470 --> 00:30:16,799
have this stupid mindset like we're

877
00:30:19,430 --> 00:30:18,480
gonna go capture this

878
00:30:20,710 --> 00:30:19,440
animal

879
00:30:22,470 --> 00:30:20,720
not knowing what we're really dealing

880
00:30:25,110 --> 00:30:22,480
with you know

881
00:30:27,029 --> 00:30:25,120
this is in 2010. so that night we'd go

882
00:30:29,430 --> 00:30:27,039
out i think it was the next night we go

883
00:30:30,470 --> 00:30:29,440
out and we have all of our gear with us

884
00:30:31,990 --> 00:30:30,480
you know

885
00:30:33,750 --> 00:30:32,000
and we're out

886
00:30:34,950 --> 00:30:33,760
until like three o'clock in the morning

887
00:30:37,110 --> 00:30:34,960
we're setting up little makeshift

888
00:30:39,350 --> 00:30:37,120
campfires everywhere trying to draw this

889
00:30:41,590 --> 00:30:39,360
animal in and we felt like the whole

890
00:30:43,430 --> 00:30:41,600
night something was watching us and the

891
00:30:45,110 --> 00:30:43,440
dogs were acting very suspicious they

892
00:30:46,470 --> 00:30:45,120
were like clinging to us

893
00:30:48,070 --> 00:30:46,480
and normally the dogs are up running

894
00:30:50,070 --> 00:30:48,080
around trying to catch rabbits and stuff

895
00:30:52,630 --> 00:30:50,080
but this night they were very on edge so

896
00:30:54,470 --> 00:30:52,640
we knew something was up

897
00:30:55,510 --> 00:30:54,480
so anyways it starts raining a little

898
00:30:57,269 --> 00:30:55,520
bit

899
00:30:58,870 --> 00:30:57,279
and we start we're like oh we've been

900
00:31:00,630 --> 00:30:58,880
out all night let's let's call it a

901
00:31:02,230 --> 00:31:00,640
night it's like 3 30 3 o'clock in the

902
00:31:04,310 --> 00:31:02,240
morning maybe i can't remember exactly

903
00:31:06,310 --> 00:31:04,320
but i remember it was a full moon night

904
00:31:07,190 --> 00:31:06,320
and we started walking back to homestead

905
00:31:09,590 --> 00:31:07,200
one

906
00:31:11,909 --> 00:31:09,600
but we start backtracking our original

907
00:31:13,509 --> 00:31:11,919
our original tracks for that night to

908
00:31:16,070 --> 00:31:13,519
see if we missed anything

909
00:31:17,110 --> 00:31:16,080
and we find behind our prince wolf

910
00:31:18,630 --> 00:31:17,120
prince

911
00:31:19,909 --> 00:31:18,640
this thing had been following us the

912
00:31:21,590 --> 00:31:19,919
whole night

913
00:31:23,190 --> 00:31:21,600
and the dogs never picked up on it and

914
00:31:25,110 --> 00:31:23,200
we never saw it

915
00:31:27,590 --> 00:31:25,120
so it was just that it was just far

916
00:31:31,269 --> 00:31:27,600
enough away to keep a visual on us but

917
00:31:33,669 --> 00:31:31,279
not not close enough for us to see it

918
00:31:35,350 --> 00:31:33,679
so now we're like holy [\h__\h] we need to

919
00:31:36,789 --> 00:31:35,360
get back to the homestead

920
00:31:39,029 --> 00:31:36,799
um

921
00:31:39,990 --> 00:31:39,039
because this thing's tracking us now

922
00:31:41,750 --> 00:31:40,000
so

923
00:31:43,750 --> 00:31:41,760
we're walking on the main dirt road that

924
00:31:45,669 --> 00:31:43,760
you see on the tv show and we're going

925
00:31:47,830 --> 00:31:45,679
around the curve actually it's all

926
00:31:50,389 --> 00:31:47,840
happening at the triangle area so we're

927
00:31:51,909 --> 00:31:50,399
going around the triangle area of the

928
00:31:54,310 --> 00:31:51,919
ranch

929
00:31:55,909 --> 00:31:54,320
uh and i'm about 50 60 feet ahead of my

930
00:31:58,549 --> 00:31:55,919
partner and i'll never forget this

931
00:32:00,389 --> 00:31:58,559
because this replays in my brain every

932
00:32:03,909 --> 00:32:00,399
single night

933
00:32:04,710 --> 00:32:03,919
the the moon is full and there's clouds

934
00:32:06,870 --> 00:32:04,720
and

935
00:32:09,110 --> 00:32:06,880
my partner says stop i hear something

936
00:32:11,350 --> 00:32:09,120
and his he's like he's like his back is

937
00:32:14,230 --> 00:32:11,360
facing the ditch there and i'm ahead of

938
00:32:17,029 --> 00:32:14,240
him and i turn around to say what and as

939
00:32:19,350 --> 00:32:17,039
i'm turning around it feels like time is

940
00:32:20,710 --> 00:32:19,360
compressing like like everything slows

941
00:32:23,590 --> 00:32:20,720
down

942
00:32:25,830 --> 00:32:23,600
and the clouds go over the moon and

943
00:32:27,909 --> 00:32:25,840
everything got really dark and i felt

944
00:32:30,230 --> 00:32:27,919
like the whole frequency and vibration

945
00:32:32,630 --> 00:32:30,240
of the environment just dropped like

946
00:32:35,269 --> 00:32:32,640
you're walking in water

947
00:32:37,909 --> 00:32:35,279
and out of the ditch

948
00:32:40,230 --> 00:32:37,919
we both hear this guttural growl come

949
00:32:42,630 --> 00:32:40,240
out of the ditch and something large is

950
00:32:43,669 --> 00:32:42,640
like a size of a donkey or deer black

951
00:32:46,389 --> 00:32:43,679
wolf

952
00:32:49,669 --> 00:32:46,399
jumps out lands on the dirt road

953
00:32:50,870 --> 00:32:49,679
takes off west the dogs go after the

954
00:32:52,310 --> 00:32:50,880
animal

955
00:32:54,230 --> 00:32:52,320
we go after the dogs because we're

956
00:32:55,269 --> 00:32:54,240
worried about the dogs fighting this big

957
00:32:58,310 --> 00:32:55,279
animal

958
00:32:59,830 --> 00:32:58,320
it's like

959
00:33:01,750 --> 00:32:59,840
we blink and it's gone and like

960
00:33:03,269 --> 00:33:01,760
disappeared in the darkness

961
00:33:04,950 --> 00:33:03,279
and we're like what the hell was that

962
00:33:06,310 --> 00:33:04,960
and the dogs stopped dead in the tracks

963
00:33:07,669 --> 00:33:06,320
and looked at us like what the hell was

964
00:33:09,590 --> 00:33:07,679
that

965
00:33:11,190 --> 00:33:09,600
and so we took some pictures and then we

966
00:33:13,029 --> 00:33:11,200
got the hell out of there and got back

967
00:33:14,710 --> 00:33:13,039
to homestead one

968
00:33:16,630 --> 00:33:14,720
and did the report and i think in the

969
00:33:18,630 --> 00:33:16,640
initial report i thought i'd even see

970
00:33:20,549 --> 00:33:18,640
the animal because i was so freaked out

971
00:33:22,789 --> 00:33:20,559
about losing my clearance my my q

972
00:33:25,029 --> 00:33:22,799
clearance that an initial report i said

973
00:33:26,470 --> 00:33:25,039
i didn't see it because i was

974
00:33:28,230 --> 00:33:26,480
i had planned to go back to nevada test

975
00:33:30,070 --> 00:33:28,240
side eventually just because all my

976
00:33:31,909 --> 00:33:30,080
friends were there and i paid better and

977
00:33:33,430 --> 00:33:31,919
there was better benefits and stuff but

978
00:33:35,430 --> 00:33:33,440
i was like i'm not going to say put this

979
00:33:38,710 --> 00:33:35,440
on the report because my my brain cannot

980
00:33:39,430 --> 00:33:38,720
process what i had just experienced wow

981
00:33:41,509 --> 00:33:39,440
it

982
00:33:42,549 --> 00:33:41,519
really took me back but here's the crazy

983
00:33:44,389 --> 00:33:42,559
part

984
00:33:47,509 --> 00:33:44,399
not that that wasn't crazy enough

985
00:33:49,509 --> 00:33:47,519
but fast forward to 2015

986
00:33:51,990 --> 00:33:49,519
i'm out there by myself now because in

987
00:33:55,110 --> 00:33:52,000
2011 we went to one person on the

988
00:33:57,190 --> 00:33:55,120
property now can you imagine securing a

989
00:33:59,750 --> 00:33:57,200
ranch and at the time we had almost a

990
00:34:01,990 --> 00:33:59,760
thousand acres yeah

991
00:34:03,669 --> 00:34:02,000
we leased the land around us we leased

992
00:34:05,669 --> 00:34:03,679
the land on top of the mesa so we had

993
00:34:07,669 --> 00:34:05,679
more acres to cover

994
00:34:10,470 --> 00:34:07,679
but imagine you're supposed to secure

995
00:34:12,550 --> 00:34:10,480
the property by yourself at night it's

996
00:34:15,109 --> 00:34:12,560
a total no-go you don't do that but we

997
00:34:17,510 --> 00:34:15,119
did but in 2015 i'm sitting in a lawn

998
00:34:19,349 --> 00:34:17,520
chair at the eastgate

999
00:34:21,589 --> 00:34:19,359
with the dogs at the time we have three

1000
00:34:23,430 --> 00:34:21,599
three labs now because bella had passed

1001
00:34:24,550 --> 00:34:23,440
away

1002
00:34:26,710 --> 00:34:24,560
and uh

1003
00:34:28,550 --> 00:34:26,720
it was a nice quiet night

1004
00:34:29,909 --> 00:34:28,560
i think it was in the fall again

1005
00:34:31,669 --> 00:34:29,919
and i was kind of on my phone a little

1006
00:34:34,149 --> 00:34:31,679
bit looking at the road not paying

1007
00:34:35,829 --> 00:34:34,159
attention because by 2015 the ranch was

1008
00:34:36,790 --> 00:34:35,839
like a second home to me i felt normal

1009
00:34:38,389 --> 00:34:36,800
out there

1010
00:34:40,470 --> 00:34:38,399
everything was just you know i knew

1011
00:34:42,950 --> 00:34:40,480
weird stuff happened but you kind of i

1012
00:34:44,629 --> 00:34:42,960
kind of um compare it to being deployed

1013
00:34:46,550 --> 00:34:44,639
overseas for the first time

1014
00:34:47,750 --> 00:34:46,560
in a combat zone like you know you're on

1015
00:34:49,270 --> 00:34:47,760
edge or your everything's a big

1016
00:34:50,149 --> 00:34:49,280
experience everything's like tunnel

1017
00:34:53,270 --> 00:34:50,159
vision

1018
00:34:54,389 --> 00:34:53,280
by year by you know month nine month ten

1019
00:34:56,470 --> 00:34:54,399
year one you're ready to get the hell

1020
00:34:58,230 --> 00:34:56,480
out of there and go home by year five

1021
00:34:59,990 --> 00:34:58,240
you're just like whatever it's the ranch

1022
00:35:01,109 --> 00:35:00,000
i don't care it's just whatever so

1023
00:35:03,349 --> 00:35:01,119
you're kind of getting numb to the

1024
00:35:05,030 --> 00:35:03,359
environment and sometimes that's good

1025
00:35:07,430 --> 00:35:05,040
sometimes that's bad you get kind of

1026
00:35:09,990 --> 00:35:07,440
complacent which is not good but also

1027
00:35:11,270 --> 00:35:10,000
you're you're i feel like your vibration

1028
00:35:13,030 --> 00:35:11,280
uh kind of

1029
00:35:14,069 --> 00:35:13,040
tunes in with the environment if that

1030
00:35:16,550 --> 00:35:14,079
makes sense

1031
00:35:17,430 --> 00:35:16,560
anyway so i'm sitting on this lawn chair

1032
00:35:19,430 --> 00:35:17,440
and

1033
00:35:21,349 --> 00:35:19,440
my back's turned against the it's called

1034
00:35:23,990 --> 00:35:21,359
the eastern valley

1035
00:35:26,550 --> 00:35:24,000
and out of the out of this bushes of

1036
00:35:30,550 --> 00:35:26,560
sage i hear that same

1037
00:35:33,349 --> 00:35:30,560
how growl that i heard in 2010

1038
00:35:34,710 --> 00:35:33,359
or yeah 2010 i come off the chair

1039
00:35:35,910 --> 00:35:34,720
gun out

1040
00:35:37,270 --> 00:35:35,920
spinning

1041
00:35:38,390 --> 00:35:37,280
because i thought this thing was going

1042
00:35:40,310 --> 00:35:38,400
to attack

1043
00:35:42,630 --> 00:35:40,320
and i can see the shrubs move and the

1044
00:35:45,109 --> 00:35:42,640
dogs go after it and almost come right

1045
00:35:47,270 --> 00:35:45,119
back like confused so i go out with you

1046
00:35:48,710 --> 00:35:47,280
know flashlight i don't see anything

1047
00:35:50,390 --> 00:35:48,720
but something was there like letting me

1048
00:35:52,710 --> 00:35:50,400
know hey i'm still here

1049
00:35:54,230 --> 00:35:52,720
and i was like oh great now i gotta walk

1050
00:35:55,750 --> 00:35:54,240
back to the trailer which is like a

1051
00:35:57,670 --> 00:35:55,760
quarter mile away

1052
00:35:59,990 --> 00:35:57,680
and on this dirt road there's tons of

1053
00:36:02,630 --> 00:36:00,000
blind spots on this dirt road i'm going

1054
00:36:04,550 --> 00:36:02,640
to get flanked by something and and i'm

1055
00:36:06,069 --> 00:36:04,560
not making it back so the whole i

1056
00:36:08,550 --> 00:36:06,079
remember walking back that night like

1057
00:36:09,510 --> 00:36:08,560
just gun out like oh this is it i'm

1058
00:36:13,990 --> 00:36:09,520
going to die

1059
00:36:17,510 --> 00:36:16,230
give me a break you know

1060
00:36:20,150 --> 00:36:17,520
so and then

1061
00:36:22,710 --> 00:36:20,160
other things that's happened out there

1062
00:36:26,550 --> 00:36:24,150
uh

1063
00:36:28,950 --> 00:36:26,560
you know ufo related not too much stuff

1064
00:36:31,750 --> 00:36:28,960
that i would say i can consider uap or

1065
00:36:33,670 --> 00:36:31,760
ufo and but again remind you i didn't

1066
00:36:35,109 --> 00:36:33,680
spend that much time staring like

1067
00:36:37,510 --> 00:36:35,119
looking for that

1068
00:36:39,030 --> 00:36:37,520
uh i focus more on the ground because i

1069
00:36:41,349 --> 00:36:39,040
treat i treat the wrench like a giant

1070
00:36:43,510 --> 00:36:41,359
crime scene i want to collect real hard

1071
00:36:45,270 --> 00:36:43,520
data evidence that i can link

1072
00:36:47,190 --> 00:36:45,280
with the phenomena maybe but anyway i

1073
00:36:49,270 --> 00:36:47,200
had a spot out there on the ranch i

1074
00:36:50,390 --> 00:36:49,280
called meditation rock and i would go

1075
00:36:52,150 --> 00:36:50,400
out there with the dogs at night

1076
00:36:54,310 --> 00:36:52,160
sometimes especially the last couple

1077
00:36:56,150 --> 00:36:54,320
years i lived out there i would go out

1078
00:36:58,630 --> 00:36:56,160
on the rock and sleep on the rocks at

1079
00:37:00,390 --> 00:36:58,640
night with the dogs and and watch the

1080
00:37:02,630 --> 00:37:00,400
stars because i really felt like the

1081
00:37:05,910 --> 00:37:02,640
more time i physically invested in the

1082
00:37:08,150 --> 00:37:05,920
property the more things would open up

1083
00:37:10,230 --> 00:37:08,160
i feel that that is key to understanding

1084
00:37:12,950 --> 00:37:10,240
the ranch you have to really put your

1085
00:37:15,670 --> 00:37:12,960
sweat equity and get your boots dirty

1086
00:37:17,109 --> 00:37:15,680
and you have to really uh invest your

1087
00:37:18,150 --> 00:37:17,119
energy into that environment to

1088
00:37:19,589 --> 00:37:18,160
understand

1089
00:37:21,829 --> 00:37:19,599
that property

1090
00:37:23,589 --> 00:37:21,839
and when you do that i think things open

1091
00:37:25,270 --> 00:37:23,599
up at least it did for me

1092
00:37:26,950 --> 00:37:25,280
and i would go out in this rock and and

1093
00:37:28,630 --> 00:37:26,960
watch the stars

1094
00:37:30,870 --> 00:37:28,640
and with the dogs it was a great time

1095
00:37:33,349 --> 00:37:30,880
because you know looking back now

1096
00:37:35,270 --> 00:37:33,359
you know there's tv shows documentaries

1097
00:37:37,030 --> 00:37:35,280
everything's skin walkers like

1098
00:37:38,390 --> 00:37:37,040
it's on netflix now

1099
00:37:42,069 --> 00:37:38,400
back then

1100
00:37:44,390 --> 00:37:42,079
never going to be a mainstream topic it

1101
00:37:46,630 --> 00:37:44,400
was just the place that i worked at like

1102
00:37:49,190 --> 00:37:46,640
another site that i secured before you

1103
00:37:51,829 --> 00:37:49,200
know the doe and the test site

1104
00:37:53,270 --> 00:37:51,839
and my time in another job assignment

1105
00:37:54,710 --> 00:37:53,280
but it was a place i actually fell in

1106
00:37:57,349 --> 00:37:54,720
love with you know i love being out

1107
00:37:59,190 --> 00:37:57,359
there i hated being away from my family

1108
00:38:01,990 --> 00:37:59,200
but i really enjoyed my time out there

1109
00:38:04,790 --> 00:38:02,000
and i made my time useful so i would do

1110
00:38:07,109 --> 00:38:04,800
my photography to help pass the time and

1111
00:38:08,630 --> 00:38:07,119
explore and look for things and

1112
00:38:10,069 --> 00:38:08,640
i kind of felt pretty connected to the

1113
00:38:12,150 --> 00:38:10,079
place

1114
00:38:13,589 --> 00:38:12,160
that that's great man and i love this

1115
00:38:14,470 --> 00:38:13,599
idea of um

1116
00:38:16,150 --> 00:38:14,480
you know

1117
00:38:18,230 --> 00:38:16,160
investing in

1118
00:38:20,310 --> 00:38:18,240
the environment and the environment will

1119
00:38:23,510 --> 00:38:20,320
invest into you like it is such a give

1120
00:38:26,470 --> 00:38:23,520
and take and um a big part of your time

1121
00:38:28,390 --> 00:38:26,480
there was documenting uh certain things

1122
00:38:30,390 --> 00:38:28,400
a lot of the native american history

1123
00:38:31,910 --> 00:38:30,400
which gets overlooked a lot when it

1124
00:38:33,910 --> 00:38:31,920
comes to skin bucket ranch let's be

1125
00:38:36,150 --> 00:38:33,920
honest it's kind of based around this

1126
00:38:40,150 --> 00:38:36,160
native american uh

1127
00:38:42,069 --> 00:38:40,160
curse or or folklore of the area and um

1128
00:38:45,270 --> 00:38:42,079
that's all we really hear about it and

1129
00:38:47,829 --> 00:38:45,280
then we now move on to the ufo aspect or

1130
00:38:50,470 --> 00:38:47,839
the you know the portals and the the

1131
00:38:53,670 --> 00:38:50,480
wolves and this and that which is like

1132
00:38:56,230 --> 00:38:53,680
of course amazing and um literally

1133
00:38:58,390 --> 00:38:56,240
phenomenal we don't know what it is but

1134
00:39:00,790 --> 00:38:58,400
there's this whole other aspect to all

1135
00:39:03,910 --> 00:39:00,800
of this that gets overlooked and i think

1136
00:39:08,069 --> 00:39:03,920
people like you like james keenan like

1137
00:39:10,790 --> 00:39:08,079
um carl as well carl vibe uh you guys

1138
00:39:13,109 --> 00:39:10,800
are documenting

1139
00:39:14,630 --> 00:39:13,119
very important things that are getting

1140
00:39:15,990 --> 00:39:14,640
overlooked by the mainstream when it

1141
00:39:18,550 --> 00:39:16,000
comes to all this

1142
00:39:19,589 --> 00:39:18,560
so i'd love to ask you um

1143
00:39:22,150 --> 00:39:19,599
what did

1144
00:39:25,030 --> 00:39:22,160
someone like bigelow think about

1145
00:39:27,670 --> 00:39:25,040
your kind of approach to the ranch you

1146
00:39:29,750 --> 00:39:27,680
know i mean he's hiring people there to

1147
00:39:32,790 --> 00:39:29,760
investigate and try to figure out what's

1148
00:39:33,670 --> 00:39:32,800
going on with with all the uh paranormal

1149
00:39:35,750 --> 00:39:33,680
stuff

1150
00:39:38,310 --> 00:39:35,760
but then you've got this

1151
00:39:40,550 --> 00:39:38,320
ancient history there as well did that

1152
00:39:43,430 --> 00:39:40,560
ever come into it when you when you were

1153
00:39:45,270 --> 00:39:43,440
hired or with colm and um what did they

1154
00:39:47,510 --> 00:39:45,280
think of your whole approach to to

1155
00:39:48,390 --> 00:39:47,520
investigating the ranch

1156
00:39:51,670 --> 00:39:48,400
it's

1157
00:39:53,670 --> 00:39:51,680
was a serious lack of communication

1158
00:39:55,910 --> 00:39:53,680
during my time out there on the property

1159
00:39:57,750 --> 00:39:55,920
so i'm not sure what bigelow really

1160
00:40:00,150 --> 00:39:57,760
thought i know that

1161
00:40:04,630 --> 00:40:02,069
i know one of the reasons why i quit the

1162
00:40:06,309 --> 00:40:04,640
first time was because i was documenting

1163
00:40:07,990 --> 00:40:06,319
native american artifacts around the

1164
00:40:10,150 --> 00:40:08,000
whole entire property

1165
00:40:12,470 --> 00:40:10,160
and it was being overlooked and actually

1166
00:40:13,750 --> 00:40:12,480
received an email from somebody wasn't

1167
00:40:16,230 --> 00:40:13,760
calling there was somebody underneath

1168
00:40:19,270 --> 00:40:16,240
him who said stop reporting artifacts is

1169
00:40:21,750 --> 00:40:19,280
not important and i was like it's 100

1170
00:40:24,230 --> 00:40:21,760
important because it's history and for

1171
00:40:26,230 --> 00:40:24,240
the first time ever physical evidence

1172
00:40:28,390 --> 00:40:26,240
and through this evidence we can find

1173
00:40:30,390 --> 00:40:28,400
what was going on because in all native

1174
00:40:32,630 --> 00:40:30,400
americans not all but in the majority of

1175
00:40:34,230 --> 00:40:32,640
the tribes especially in utah talk about

1176
00:40:35,910 --> 00:40:34,240
the star people and their culture so

1177
00:40:38,069 --> 00:40:35,920
we're not going to explore this aspect

1178
00:40:39,990 --> 00:40:38,079
of what tribes were out here it wasn't

1179
00:40:42,470 --> 00:40:40,000
just the utes it goes back to the

1180
00:40:43,589 --> 00:40:42,480
fremont and then even beyond that

1181
00:40:45,750 --> 00:40:43,599
because

1182
00:40:48,069 --> 00:40:45,760
let me show you how important this is in

1183
00:40:50,069 --> 00:40:48,079
one area

1184
00:40:54,309 --> 00:40:50,079
like on the tv show the finale where it

1185
00:40:56,550 --> 00:40:54,319
shows the pillars and the petrogram

1186
00:40:58,550 --> 00:40:56,560
that they capture in the last episode

1187
00:41:01,349 --> 00:40:58,560
that area the eastern valley is where i

1188
00:41:03,270 --> 00:41:01,359
spent 90 of my time because i felt

1189
00:41:05,190 --> 00:41:03,280
naturally drawn there but there was also

1190
00:41:07,750 --> 00:41:05,200
an abundance of artifacts out there in

1191
00:41:09,670 --> 00:41:07,760
history and i documented so my thought

1192
00:41:11,829 --> 00:41:09,680
process was this i had a at a

1193
00:41:13,589 --> 00:41:11,839
topographical topographical map of the

1194
00:41:15,670 --> 00:41:13,599
property and every time i found an

1195
00:41:16,390 --> 00:41:15,680
artifact i would take a picture and gps

1196
00:41:18,069 --> 00:41:16,400
it

1197
00:41:20,150 --> 00:41:18,079
and then some artifacts i'd bring back

1198
00:41:22,150 --> 00:41:20,160
the homestead one to do further analysis

1199
00:41:23,670 --> 00:41:22,160
and and online research as best i could

1200
00:41:25,030 --> 00:41:23,680
some of the artifacts i actually took

1201
00:41:27,670 --> 00:41:25,040
down to vernal utah and had

1202
00:41:29,430 --> 00:41:27,680
professionals look at to get dates

1203
00:41:31,270 --> 00:41:29,440
and i would i would document all this

1204
00:41:33,109 --> 00:41:31,280
stuff because i felt like if i could

1205
00:41:35,270 --> 00:41:33,119
connect people's experiences to maybe an

1206
00:41:37,430 --> 00:41:35,280
abundance of artifacts there was a solid

1207
00:41:38,870 --> 00:41:37,440
connection there for the first time ever

1208
00:41:41,910 --> 00:41:38,880
it wasn't just like

1209
00:41:43,589 --> 00:41:41,920
oh it's this or it's that or you know

1210
00:41:45,589 --> 00:41:43,599
there was no direction when i first got

1211
00:41:47,030 --> 00:41:45,599
hired to what to look for

1212
00:41:48,630 --> 00:41:47,040
there really wasn't

1213
00:41:50,309 --> 00:41:48,640
it was like anything out of the ordinary

1214
00:41:52,150 --> 00:41:50,319
reported like okay

1215
00:41:54,710 --> 00:41:52,160
be more specific there was no like hey

1216
00:41:58,950 --> 00:41:54,720
focus on this or focus on that so when i

1217
00:42:00,950 --> 00:41:58,960
got told to stop reporting it i was like

1218
00:42:03,109 --> 00:42:00,960
what what's the deal here so

1219
00:42:05,750 --> 00:42:03,119
that kind of upset me a lot because i

1220
00:42:06,950 --> 00:42:05,760
invested so much of my time

1221
00:42:08,870 --> 00:42:06,960
doing that and i thought that was

1222
00:42:11,030 --> 00:42:08,880
extremely important and i still do to

1223
00:42:12,630 --> 00:42:11,040
this day so much so that i've gone back

1224
00:42:14,950 --> 00:42:12,640
to the basin on my own

1225
00:42:17,109 --> 00:42:14,960
and documented other locations around

1226
00:42:19,109 --> 00:42:17,119
the entire basin that have the same type

1227
00:42:21,030 --> 00:42:19,119
of connective phenomena which is you

1228
00:42:23,030 --> 00:42:21,040
know reporting screen walkers and ufos

1229
00:42:25,109 --> 00:42:23,040
but there's also a native american

1230
00:42:27,910 --> 00:42:25,119
native native american base there you

1231
00:42:29,670 --> 00:42:27,920
know but an area um in the eastern

1232
00:42:31,670 --> 00:42:29,680
valley

1233
00:42:33,750 --> 00:42:31,680
the artifacts are this important in one

1234
00:42:36,950 --> 00:42:33,760
location i found artifacts that go back

1235
00:42:39,349 --> 00:42:36,960
1500 years ago the arcade arcade period

1236
00:42:42,150 --> 00:42:39,359
in the same location i found paleo

1237
00:42:43,910 --> 00:42:42,160
artifacts that go back 10 000 years ago

1238
00:42:46,710 --> 00:42:43,920
so you have overlapping layers of

1239
00:42:48,790 --> 00:42:46,720
history in one location you know what

1240
00:42:50,470 --> 00:42:48,800
was going on out there

1241
00:42:52,790 --> 00:42:50,480
during that time much like the nevada

1242
00:42:54,870 --> 00:42:52,800
test site where they saw skinwalkers and

1243
00:42:56,309 --> 00:42:54,880
there's petroglyphs that go back 10 000

1244
00:42:57,990 --> 00:42:56,319
years ago

1245
00:42:59,829 --> 00:42:58,000
and skin walker ranch same thing

1246
00:43:01,829 --> 00:42:59,839
mcconkey ranch same thing blind frog

1247
00:43:05,349 --> 00:43:01,839
ranch has stuff right there uh mckees

1248
00:43:07,910 --> 00:43:05,359
springs at nine mile canyon and there's

1249
00:43:09,430 --> 00:43:07,920
it's undeniable you cannot ignore that

1250
00:43:10,870 --> 00:43:09,440
anymore there's

1251
00:43:12,390 --> 00:43:10,880
there's history there and it's worth

1252
00:43:14,390 --> 00:43:12,400
exploring and i'm not the only guy doing

1253
00:43:15,109 --> 00:43:14,400
it there's there's been people before me

1254
00:43:16,950 --> 00:43:15,119
who

1255
00:43:18,790 --> 00:43:16,960
brought up the same type of stuff that

1256
00:43:21,030 --> 00:43:18,800
i'm talking about now i just so happen

1257
00:43:22,390 --> 00:43:21,040
to photograph and document it and you

1258
00:43:24,550 --> 00:43:22,400
know i've linked up with james keane and

1259
00:43:26,470 --> 00:43:24,560
carl vibe and they've helped me as well

1260
00:43:28,390 --> 00:43:26,480
you know james kenyon's got a insane

1261
00:43:30,550 --> 00:43:28,400
amount of knowledge about this stuff

1262
00:43:33,190 --> 00:43:30,560
about especially about petroglyphs and

1263
00:43:34,150 --> 00:43:33,200
carl's got a great eye and he's also

1264
00:43:37,910 --> 00:43:34,160
very

1265
00:43:39,510 --> 00:43:37,920
this stuff so

1266
00:43:41,670 --> 00:43:39,520
um you know linking up with the right

1267
00:43:42,870 --> 00:43:41,680
guys you know the turn the term iron

1268
00:43:44,470 --> 00:43:42,880
sharpens iron you want to surround

1269
00:43:45,910 --> 00:43:44,480
yourself with some of the best guys i'm

1270
00:43:47,829 --> 00:43:45,920
surrounded with some of the best guys i

1271
00:43:49,510 --> 00:43:47,839
believe that are not just looking for a

1272
00:43:50,870 --> 00:43:49,520
payout they're looking for truth

1273
00:43:52,390 --> 00:43:50,880
and that's important when it comes down

1274
00:43:53,430 --> 00:43:52,400
to it because

1275
00:43:54,710 --> 00:43:53,440
i think there's something worth

1276
00:43:56,790 --> 00:43:54,720
exploring more and that's what i'm

1277
00:43:57,750 --> 00:43:56,800
continuing to do on my own

1278
00:43:58,870 --> 00:43:57,760
is that

1279
00:44:01,510 --> 00:43:58,880
yeah

1280
00:44:02,630 --> 00:44:01,520
i know colin was more open to it

1281
00:44:04,069 --> 00:44:02,640
i think

1282
00:44:07,430 --> 00:44:04,079
we had a conversation where he was like

1283
00:44:09,270 --> 00:44:07,440
just keep doing it but don't do it on

1284
00:44:10,790 --> 00:44:09,280
on the daily journal so that's when i

1285
00:44:12,710 --> 00:44:10,800
took it upon myself to keep my own

1286
00:44:13,990 --> 00:44:12,720
personal journal and documenting

1287
00:44:15,829 --> 00:44:14,000
everything myself and that's what i did

1288
00:44:18,150 --> 00:44:15,839
for five six the whole time i was out

1289
00:44:21,270 --> 00:44:18,160
there i have my own personal journal

1290
00:44:23,829 --> 00:44:21,280
of documentation of stuff or not just

1291
00:44:26,150 --> 00:44:23,839
artifacts but also areas of interest

1292
00:44:28,870 --> 00:44:26,160
that are highly important into

1293
00:44:29,910 --> 00:44:28,880
understanding what's going on out there

1294
00:44:31,030 --> 00:44:29,920
and

1295
00:44:33,349 --> 00:44:31,040
when

1296
00:44:34,870 --> 00:44:33,359
like the whole ufc stuff that's out now

1297
00:44:37,430 --> 00:44:34,880
it seems like that's such a mainstream

1298
00:44:38,870 --> 00:44:37,440
topic it almost seems like that's that's

1299
00:44:40,950 --> 00:44:38,880
the new narrative now that has to be

1300
00:44:44,230 --> 00:44:40,960
crowned on everybody's throat is

1301
00:44:47,510 --> 00:44:44,240
everything's uap everything's uap ufo

1302
00:44:49,829 --> 00:44:47,520
ufos are threats uaps are threats

1303
00:44:51,270 --> 00:44:49,839
i just i don't buy it i don't i don't

1304
00:44:53,109 --> 00:44:51,280
buy it man i don't buy it because of

1305
00:44:54,309 --> 00:44:53,119
where i used to work at but also i'm

1306
00:44:55,349 --> 00:44:54,319
having an open mind here if we're

1307
00:44:56,790 --> 00:44:55,359
talking about

1308
00:44:58,309 --> 00:44:56,800
real aliens

1309
00:45:00,630 --> 00:44:58,319
is that what we're talking about okay so

1310
00:45:02,710 --> 00:45:00,640
we're talking about a culture of of

1311
00:45:05,510 --> 00:45:02,720
beings that are so advanced they're

1312
00:45:06,870 --> 00:45:05,520
gonna come here and do what wipe us out

1313
00:45:08,230 --> 00:45:06,880
are we going to be able to stop that i

1314
00:45:09,990 --> 00:45:08,240
don't think so

1315
00:45:11,190 --> 00:45:10,000
i don't think that we're going to but

1316
00:45:12,630 --> 00:45:11,200
why would they wipe us out they're

1317
00:45:13,910 --> 00:45:12,640
probably coming here using this as a

1318
00:45:17,750 --> 00:45:13,920
resource

1319
00:45:18,710 --> 00:45:17,760
they probably view us as nothing but

1320
00:45:20,390 --> 00:45:18,720
cattle

1321
00:45:22,630 --> 00:45:20,400
and they use this as a resource so

1322
00:45:24,630 --> 00:45:22,640
they're not gonna hurt their resource

1323
00:45:26,230 --> 00:45:24,640
they may stop us from hurting ourselves

1324
00:45:28,470 --> 00:45:26,240
because i've said before

1325
00:45:31,510 --> 00:45:28,480
the only threat to humanity is humanity

1326
00:45:33,829 --> 00:45:31,520
itself we are such a destructive species

1327
00:45:35,190 --> 00:45:33,839
we're bound for extinction and we don't

1328
00:45:36,950 --> 00:45:35,200
care we're just like whatever doesn't

1329
00:45:38,390 --> 00:45:36,960
matter we have so many distractions now

1330
00:45:40,470 --> 00:45:38,400
and that's why the native american stuff

1331
00:45:43,030 --> 00:45:40,480
is so important these people didn't have

1332
00:45:45,430 --> 00:45:43,040
distractions so they're taking the time

1333
00:45:47,750 --> 00:45:45,440
to make petroglyphs about portals or

1334
00:45:49,349 --> 00:45:47,760
whatever giants or whatever else in

1335
00:45:52,630 --> 00:45:49,359
their area they're doing that for a

1336
00:45:53,430 --> 00:45:52,640
reason they're not just bored okay we're

1337
00:45:55,589 --> 00:45:53,440
not

1338
00:45:57,430 --> 00:45:55,599
we're talking 8 000 10 000 years ago

1339
00:45:58,710 --> 00:45:57,440
people are foraging and hunting every

1340
00:46:00,470 --> 00:45:58,720
day to live

1341
00:46:01,910 --> 00:46:00,480
they're not going to get bored i'm going

1342
00:46:04,230 --> 00:46:01,920
to go scribble on these rocks because

1343
00:46:05,670 --> 00:46:04,240
i'm bored no they're trying to relay

1344
00:46:08,230 --> 00:46:05,680
information

1345
00:46:10,230 --> 00:46:08,240
and so it's just ignored because

1346
00:46:11,510 --> 00:46:10,240
we're taught in our culture in american

1347
00:46:13,990 --> 00:46:11,520
culture

1348
00:46:15,589 --> 00:46:14,000
to like not focus on that when in

1349
00:46:17,670 --> 00:46:15,599
reality full circle we need to be

1350
00:46:19,270 --> 00:46:17,680
focusing back in the native tribes and

1351
00:46:21,030 --> 00:46:19,280
their cultures and their teachings

1352
00:46:22,630 --> 00:46:21,040
because they have it right

1353
00:46:24,790 --> 00:46:22,640
you know we want all these scientific

1354
00:46:27,270 --> 00:46:24,800
explanations and data and evidence and i

1355
00:46:29,349 --> 00:46:27,280
get that i'm totally for that but maybe

1356
00:46:31,670 --> 00:46:29,359
it's more important if we just sit back

1357
00:46:34,790 --> 00:46:31,680
on a mesa or in a rock or by a river and

1358
00:46:37,750 --> 00:46:34,800
just absorb the moment and learn that's

1359
00:46:38,630 --> 00:46:37,760
the key is absorbing the time

1360
00:46:40,470 --> 00:46:38,640
and

1361
00:46:42,790 --> 00:46:40,480
who cares about documenting the evidence

1362
00:46:45,030 --> 00:46:42,800
i get to a point but it's more important

1363
00:46:47,510 --> 00:46:45,040
to focus on the moment because i've said

1364
00:46:49,030 --> 00:46:47,520
before the ranch is bigger than a tv

1365
00:46:50,790 --> 00:46:49,040
show it's bigger than my photography

1366
00:46:53,109 --> 00:46:50,800
it's bigger than a contract with the

1367
00:46:55,510 --> 00:46:53,119
government it is real native american

1368
00:46:56,550 --> 00:46:55,520
indigenous culture history

1369
00:47:00,309 --> 00:46:56,560
and

1370
00:47:02,870 --> 00:47:00,319
the only way to learn is just sitting

1371
00:47:04,950 --> 00:47:02,880
there and absorbing it you have to be

1372
00:47:06,710 --> 00:47:04,960
there to absorb it you have to go out to

1373
00:47:09,349 --> 00:47:06,720
these places these petroglyphs and see

1374
00:47:11,190 --> 00:47:09,359
them for yourself and think to yourself

1375
00:47:13,190 --> 00:47:11,200
what was going on out here

1376
00:47:15,190 --> 00:47:13,200
you know because in today's society

1377
00:47:16,630 --> 00:47:15,200
we're so distracted with ipads and tv

1378
00:47:19,190 --> 00:47:16,640
shows they didn't have anything like

1379
00:47:21,430 --> 00:47:19,200
that the stars were their ipad the the

1380
00:47:23,030 --> 00:47:21,440
earth was their eye their netflix and

1381
00:47:24,470 --> 00:47:23,040
that's what they watched and they

1382
00:47:27,510 --> 00:47:24,480
learned from that

1383
00:47:29,750 --> 00:47:27,520
i mean let's be real here it's just like

1384
00:47:33,349 --> 00:47:29,760
it it feels like i've been taking crazy

1385
00:47:35,109 --> 00:47:33,359
pills since 2011 because in 2011 is when

1386
00:47:36,870 --> 00:47:35,119
i found my first artifact in the eastern

1387
00:47:40,069 --> 00:47:36,880
valley and that flipped my whole

1388
00:47:42,309 --> 00:47:40,079
perception of everything i was like whoa

1389
00:47:44,309 --> 00:47:42,319
there's something else going on out here

1390
00:47:46,309 --> 00:47:44,319
and then i felt like this may sound

1391
00:47:47,829 --> 00:47:46,319
crazy but it's the honest to god truth

1392
00:47:49,990 --> 00:47:47,839
the whole time i was out there i felt

1393
00:47:51,109 --> 00:47:50,000
like i was being guided by something

1394
00:47:52,790 --> 00:47:51,119
bigger

1395
00:47:54,390 --> 00:47:52,800
something was guiding me to find this

1396
00:47:56,950 --> 00:47:54,400
stuff because it wasn't just one

1397
00:47:58,549 --> 00:47:56,960
artifact no it was other areas of

1398
00:48:00,870 --> 00:47:58,559
interest some of those errors which i

1399
00:48:02,870 --> 00:48:00,880
showed on the tv show a cave

1400
00:48:04,549 --> 00:48:02,880
that was on the show that's one of many

1401
00:48:07,190 --> 00:48:04,559
areas i know out there personally that

1402
00:48:09,589 --> 00:48:07,200
are very important to the overall aspect

1403
00:48:11,829 --> 00:48:09,599
and view of the ranch

1404
00:48:14,309 --> 00:48:11,839
and i think it's great that utah's

1405
00:48:15,990 --> 00:48:14,319
getting that

1406
00:48:18,150 --> 00:48:16,000
you know attention because it's drawing

1407
00:48:20,470 --> 00:48:18,160
more people out to the basin so they can

1408
00:48:21,910 --> 00:48:20,480
experience themselves and make their own

1409
00:48:24,630 --> 00:48:21,920
assumptions because it's very easy for

1410
00:48:27,270 --> 00:48:24,640
us to be very judgmental at home

1411
00:48:29,190 --> 00:48:27,280
and and you know unclear armchair

1412
00:48:31,270 --> 00:48:29,200
quarterback stuff and you never go out

1413
00:48:33,109 --> 00:48:31,280
there and experience it

1414
00:48:34,630 --> 00:48:33,119
and you don't have to even go to utah

1415
00:48:36,069 --> 00:48:34,640
there's places probably in your local

1416
00:48:38,549 --> 00:48:36,079
areas with native history that you can

1417
00:48:40,870 --> 00:48:38,559
go out and just learn about it you might

1418
00:48:43,430 --> 00:48:40,880
learn something and really for me the

1419
00:48:45,750 --> 00:48:43,440
ranch was about spiritual evolution

1420
00:48:48,950 --> 00:48:45,760
that's how it boiled down to me it was

1421
00:48:50,549 --> 00:48:48,960
just about evolving as a human being

1422
00:48:51,349 --> 00:48:50,559
and that's what i kind of did when i

1423
00:48:53,910 --> 00:48:51,359
kind of showed that through my

1424
00:48:55,750 --> 00:48:53,920
photography like the ranch it's viewed

1425
00:48:57,349 --> 00:48:55,760
as a real scary like you always hear the

1426
00:49:00,069 --> 00:48:57,359
spookiest place in the world the most

1427
00:49:02,630 --> 00:49:00,079
paranormal hot spot and it is

1428
00:49:04,230 --> 00:49:02,640
it the ranch can be as dark as you want

1429
00:49:06,069 --> 00:49:04,240
or as light as you want it's based on

1430
00:49:08,309 --> 00:49:06,079
the individual what you're going to

1431
00:49:10,230 --> 00:49:08,319
focus your attention on and i focused on

1432
00:49:11,270 --> 00:49:10,240
the dark a little bit and then i focused

1433
00:49:13,349 --> 00:49:11,280
on the light

1434
00:49:15,349 --> 00:49:13,359
my primary focus was the light

1435
00:49:17,589 --> 00:49:15,359
and the capture and the beauty the ranch

1436
00:49:20,069 --> 00:49:17,599
of the property that was my focus

1437
00:49:21,430 --> 00:49:20,079
and i kind of felt like

1438
00:49:23,190 --> 00:49:21,440
that opened up the ranch more because i

1439
00:49:24,870 --> 00:49:23,200
was so focused on

1440
00:49:28,069 --> 00:49:24,880
subject matters of like you know

1441
00:49:29,510 --> 00:49:28,079
artifacts rock formations the vegetation

1442
00:49:31,270 --> 00:49:29,520
animals

1443
00:49:33,109 --> 00:49:31,280
and so i kind of that kind of helped me

1444
00:49:35,510 --> 00:49:33,119
understand the ranch more

1445
00:49:36,549 --> 00:49:35,520
i used to do this thing

1446
00:49:38,710 --> 00:49:36,559
um

1447
00:49:40,710 --> 00:49:38,720
to put my mind in the in the kind of

1448
00:49:42,790 --> 00:49:40,720
focus like laser focus

1449
00:49:44,870 --> 00:49:42,800
i would i would imagine that i had just

1450
00:49:47,270 --> 00:49:44,880
landed on a different planet and i was

1451
00:49:49,589 --> 00:49:47,280
and i was an alien or an alien explorer

1452
00:49:52,470 --> 00:49:49,599
and it was my job to find proof of life

1453
00:49:54,549 --> 00:49:52,480
so i would land in utah and it was my

1454
00:49:56,630 --> 00:49:54,559
job to go out and find artifacts to find

1455
00:49:58,390 --> 00:49:56,640
evidence to later go back to report and

1456
00:50:00,710 --> 00:49:58,400
i kind of that kind of helped me focus

1457
00:50:02,390 --> 00:50:00,720
on the minor details of being out there

1458
00:50:03,990 --> 00:50:02,400
and i still kind of use that technique

1459
00:50:05,750 --> 00:50:04,000
today i go out and i say okay i'm

1460
00:50:07,190 --> 00:50:05,760
mailing i just landed

1461
00:50:08,309 --> 00:50:07,200
and it's my job to find the proof of

1462
00:50:09,829 --> 00:50:08,319
life

1463
00:50:10,870 --> 00:50:09,839
it sounds crazy

1464
00:50:12,069 --> 00:50:10,880
that's just

1465
00:50:13,430 --> 00:50:12,079
i don't know maybe i was at the ranch

1466
00:50:14,950 --> 00:50:13,440
for too long had too much time on my

1467
00:50:17,190 --> 00:50:14,960
hands but

1468
00:50:18,950 --> 00:50:17,200
no obviously

1469
00:50:20,630 --> 00:50:18,960
exactly man and that's what we want we

1470
00:50:22,790 --> 00:50:20,640
want you to be real with us because you

1471
00:50:24,790 --> 00:50:22,800
know we get this kind of filtered

1472
00:50:26,950 --> 00:50:24,800
perception of the ranch through the

1473
00:50:28,790 --> 00:50:26,960
books through the tv shows and you know

1474
00:50:30,950 --> 00:50:28,800
i respect the work being done there

1475
00:50:32,950 --> 00:50:30,960
there's no denying like i think people

1476
00:50:35,270 --> 00:50:32,960
like brandon fugle and even bigelow to

1477
00:50:37,109 --> 00:50:35,280
an extent like they wanted answers they

1478
00:50:39,190 --> 00:50:37,119
have a burning curiosity they've had

1479
00:50:41,430 --> 00:50:39,200
experiences they want to know and they

1480
00:50:45,030 --> 00:50:41,440
have the resources to do that that's

1481
00:50:48,870 --> 00:50:46,870
yeah please the people that are asking

1482
00:50:50,630 --> 00:50:48,880
those questions like bigelow

1483
00:50:53,109 --> 00:50:50,640
people not so much fuel goes out there

1484
00:50:55,190 --> 00:50:53,119
but people that ask those questions they

1485
00:50:56,870 --> 00:50:55,200
need to go physically to those locations

1486
00:50:59,430 --> 00:50:56,880
and put that time in right you can't

1487
00:51:01,589 --> 00:50:59,440
just do it third party and expect to get

1488
00:51:03,750 --> 00:51:01,599
the truth because with those people who

1489
00:51:05,270 --> 00:51:03,760
are giving you that information are not

1490
00:51:07,510 --> 00:51:05,280
honorable people they're dishonest and

1491
00:51:09,510 --> 00:51:07,520
they're feeding you a bunch of crap

1492
00:51:11,109 --> 00:51:09,520
you have to be i know if i'm passionate

1493
00:51:12,470 --> 00:51:11,119
about something i'm going to go directly

1494
00:51:14,069 --> 00:51:12,480
to the source

1495
00:51:16,150 --> 00:51:14,079
and figure it out

1496
00:51:17,670 --> 00:51:16,160
or try to try to figure it out and

1497
00:51:19,910 --> 00:51:17,680
that's what kind of carl did recently

1498
00:51:22,150 --> 00:51:19,920
you know carl had this whole magic mesa

1499
00:51:23,349 --> 00:51:22,160
thing and he could have doubled down and

1500
00:51:26,390 --> 00:51:23,359
said it's all

1501
00:51:28,630 --> 00:51:26,400
paranormal or ufos but he didn't he went

1502
00:51:30,549 --> 00:51:28,640
out there and debunked his own thing and

1503
00:51:31,670 --> 00:51:30,559
that's saying something

1504
00:51:33,030 --> 00:51:31,680
and

1505
00:51:34,790 --> 00:51:33,040
i think when it comes to some of these

1506
00:51:37,430 --> 00:51:34,800
locations there's been people who have

1507
00:51:39,589 --> 00:51:37,440
lied i know there has been personally

1508
00:51:41,430 --> 00:51:39,599
who lied to impress people or to get the

1509
00:51:43,589 --> 00:51:41,440
favors of somebody or whatever the

1510
00:51:45,670 --> 00:51:43,599
reason why and it's not uncommon to

1511
00:51:48,470 --> 00:51:45,680
think that it happens every single day

1512
00:51:49,270 --> 00:51:48,480
in society where employees do their best

1513
00:51:51,910 --> 00:51:49,280
to

1514
00:51:53,829 --> 00:51:51,920
you know impress their boss it happens

1515
00:51:55,670 --> 00:51:53,839
everywhere and every single job in

1516
00:51:56,630 --> 00:51:55,680
america and across the world so how is

1517
00:51:58,150 --> 00:51:56,640
it going to be different at these

1518
00:51:59,750 --> 00:51:58,160
locations you want to impress your boss

1519
00:52:01,190 --> 00:51:59,760
you want to produce

1520
00:52:03,670 --> 00:52:01,200
but what are you going to produce

1521
00:52:05,589 --> 00:52:03,680
[\h__\h] or truth i focused on the truth

1522
00:52:08,870 --> 00:52:05,599
man that's it

1523
00:52:11,750 --> 00:52:08,880
i love it well okay truth is the perfect

1524
00:52:13,910 --> 00:52:11,760
way to kind of tackle um what i think is

1525
00:52:15,910 --> 00:52:13,920
going to be the most controversial part

1526
00:52:18,790 --> 00:52:15,920
of this conversation chris and i have to

1527
00:52:20,549 --> 00:52:18,800
ask because i know a lot of people um

1528
00:52:22,470 --> 00:52:20,559
they're frustrated with the lack of

1529
00:52:24,790 --> 00:52:22,480
transparency that came from the bigelow

1530
00:52:27,349 --> 00:52:24,800
era of the ranch you know a lot of

1531
00:52:29,190 --> 00:52:27,359
people they're they're not excuse their

1532
00:52:31,510 --> 00:52:29,200
explanation for why they're frustrated

1533
00:52:33,510 --> 00:52:31,520
is because taxpayer money did end up

1534
00:52:37,030 --> 00:52:33,520
going to studying skinwalker ranch

1535
00:52:39,589 --> 00:52:37,040
through a pentagon funded program so i

1536
00:52:42,470 --> 00:52:39,599
have to ask you as someone who worked on

1537
00:52:44,549 --> 00:52:42,480
the ranch were you ever aware

1538
00:52:47,510 --> 00:52:44,559
that the us government

1539
00:52:50,069 --> 00:52:47,520
actually was funding some of the

1540
00:52:51,829 --> 00:52:50,079
research going on at the ranch and uh

1541
00:52:54,630 --> 00:52:51,839
what do you make of the whole government

1542
00:52:56,470 --> 00:52:54,640
ties to skinwalker ranch

1543
00:52:58,950 --> 00:52:56,480
well that's a good question because i

1544
00:53:00,470 --> 00:52:58,960
didn't really i knew i've like nobody

1545
00:53:02,069 --> 00:53:00,480
sat me down and said okay here's the

1546
00:53:04,309 --> 00:53:02,079
game plan here's what's going on and

1547
00:53:05,750 --> 00:53:04,319
that's like a communication and that's

1548
00:53:08,790 --> 00:53:05,760
why

1549
00:53:10,790 --> 00:53:08,800
those programs fail like a communication

1550
00:53:11,990 --> 00:53:10,800
and there's some people that say asap

1551
00:53:15,030 --> 00:53:12,000
was a a

1552
00:53:17,270 --> 00:53:15,040
success and in some some areas it was a

1553
00:53:19,670 --> 00:53:17,280
success but it also was a complete

1554
00:53:21,990 --> 00:53:19,680
failure because from the start there was

1555
00:53:25,430 --> 00:53:22,000
a lack of communication there was no set

1556
00:53:29,030 --> 00:53:25,440
objective at all during my time

1557
00:53:30,069 --> 00:53:29,040
so it really kind of boils down to

1558
00:53:31,829 --> 00:53:30,079
the start

1559
00:53:33,829 --> 00:53:31,839
if you're going to talk about asap and

1560
00:53:35,910 --> 00:53:33,839
this all started from jane lakowsky who

1561
00:53:38,790 --> 00:53:35,920
was a dia agent who reached out to

1562
00:53:40,390 --> 00:53:38,800
robert bigelow back in 2007 right and

1563
00:53:43,030 --> 00:53:40,400
says hey i want to come check out your

1564
00:53:44,710 --> 00:53:43,040
ranch and bigelow is like okay

1565
00:53:46,390 --> 00:53:44,720
so right there that's kind of a to me it

1566
00:53:47,430 --> 00:53:46,400
seems like a red flag because anytime

1567
00:53:49,349 --> 00:53:47,440
the government gets involved with the

1568
00:53:50,710 --> 00:53:49,359
private sector who's that really the

1569
00:53:53,990 --> 00:53:50,720
benefit

1570
00:53:55,829 --> 00:53:54,000
the private sector or the government

1571
00:53:57,670 --> 00:53:55,839
so anyways so the council goes down the

1572
00:53:59,030 --> 00:53:57,680
property and in less than two hours has

1573
00:54:00,870 --> 00:53:59,040
an experience

1574
00:54:01,670 --> 00:54:00,880
you know so incredible that he goes back

1575
00:54:03,910 --> 00:54:01,680
to

1576
00:54:06,069 --> 00:54:03,920
the pentagon and gets funding for asap

1577
00:54:08,230 --> 00:54:06,079
with zero evidence

1578
00:54:09,990 --> 00:54:08,240
that's another red flag why

1579
00:54:11,589 --> 00:54:10,000
how how are you going to get money with

1580
00:54:13,109 --> 00:54:11,599
zero evidence just based on somebody's

1581
00:54:14,390 --> 00:54:13,119
experience

1582
00:54:16,870 --> 00:54:14,400
nobody's questioning that are you

1583
00:54:18,790 --> 00:54:16,880
serious it's like and then so that's not

1584
00:54:20,470 --> 00:54:18,800
the part that that strikes me as odd

1585
00:54:23,030 --> 00:54:20,480
because i never knew about the casket at

1586
00:54:24,870 --> 00:54:23,040
all the whole time i worked there

1587
00:54:26,630 --> 00:54:24,880
but if you have a guy who had the

1588
00:54:29,270 --> 00:54:26,640
experience

1589
00:54:31,030 --> 00:54:29,280
and he's just sitting in washington

1590
00:54:33,349 --> 00:54:31,040
not out there on the ranch

1591
00:54:35,589 --> 00:54:33,359
and he obviously had he's tapped on the

1592
00:54:37,270 --> 00:54:35,599
universe's door where he was able to get

1593
00:54:39,109 --> 00:54:37,280
funding for this experiment he's not out

1594
00:54:41,270 --> 00:54:39,119
there boots on the ground with me and

1595
00:54:43,430 --> 00:54:41,280
other guys out there

1596
00:54:45,430 --> 00:54:43,440
what's the point it's it's set up for

1597
00:54:47,589 --> 00:54:45,440
failure from the start because your

1598
00:54:49,109 --> 00:54:47,599
your most important asset resource who

1599
00:54:51,990 --> 00:54:49,119
had the connection

1600
00:54:53,510 --> 00:54:52,000
is gone he's nowhere to be found so now

1601
00:54:55,430 --> 00:54:53,520
it's left to a bunch of prime military

1602
00:54:57,510 --> 00:54:55,440
veterans to go out there and and do what

1603
00:54:59,349 --> 00:54:57,520
figure what out it seems like the whole

1604
00:55:00,470 --> 00:54:59,359
program was a fail to this in the

1605
00:55:02,470 --> 00:55:00,480
beginning because of the lack of

1606
00:55:04,829 --> 00:55:02,480
communication we still were able to

1607
00:55:06,390 --> 00:55:04,839
collect data and and have some

1608
00:55:07,589 --> 00:55:06,400
experiences

1609
00:55:09,430 --> 00:55:07,599
but it makes you wonder you know what

1610
00:55:11,670 --> 00:55:09,440
was what else was going on out there

1611
00:55:13,829 --> 00:55:11,680
that we didn't know about it seemed like

1612
00:55:15,750 --> 00:55:13,839
it seemed like certain people during my

1613
00:55:16,870 --> 00:55:15,760
timeline avoided the ranch like the

1614
00:55:18,230 --> 00:55:16,880
plague

1615
00:55:20,549 --> 00:55:18,240
and it's just like what do you want us

1616
00:55:21,829 --> 00:55:20,559
to do out here there's there's limited

1617
00:55:23,589 --> 00:55:21,839
direction

1618
00:55:25,750 --> 00:55:23,599
so and that's like the military mindset

1619
00:55:27,589 --> 00:55:25,760
is like work more with less

1620
00:55:29,510 --> 00:55:27,599
and so that's what we do you work more

1621
00:55:31,109 --> 00:55:29,520
less you still have a job to do

1622
00:55:32,630 --> 00:55:31,119
but to me you know after learning about

1623
00:55:35,910 --> 00:55:32,640
awesome because i didn't know about osap

1624
00:55:37,270 --> 00:55:35,920
until 2019 but and learn about lakatsuki

1625
00:55:39,109 --> 00:55:37,280
and stuff

1626
00:55:40,950 --> 00:55:39,119
i didn't know that he even came out

1627
00:55:43,030 --> 00:55:40,960
there and had an experience and was

1628
00:55:45,109 --> 00:55:43,040
until later with a new book and stuff

1629
00:55:46,710 --> 00:55:45,119
that he that i found out

1630
00:55:48,710 --> 00:55:46,720
but i thought to myself what a wasted

1631
00:55:50,150 --> 00:55:48,720
opportunity because it had been great

1632
00:55:52,230 --> 00:55:50,160
for him to come out there because he's

1633
00:55:53,829 --> 00:55:52,240
had he has a connection out there and

1634
00:55:55,829 --> 00:55:53,839
that's how the ranch works

1635
00:55:57,990 --> 00:55:55,839
i felt the ranch

1636
00:55:59,670 --> 00:55:58,000
has a connected connectiveness to people

1637
00:56:01,270 --> 00:55:59,680
or whatever

1638
00:56:03,670 --> 00:56:01,280
so why would you want to come back out

1639
00:56:05,270 --> 00:56:03,680
it doesn't make any sense to me you know

1640
00:56:07,670 --> 00:56:05,280
it feels like

1641
00:56:10,710 --> 00:56:07,680
a missed opportunity you know

1642
00:56:12,069 --> 00:56:10,720
and i don't know if if the reason why he

1643
00:56:13,190 --> 00:56:12,079
didn't come out was because he had a bad

1644
00:56:14,630 --> 00:56:13,200
experience

1645
00:56:15,829 --> 00:56:14,640
and i guess according to the book there

1646
00:56:17,589 --> 00:56:15,839
was five other

1647
00:56:19,510 --> 00:56:17,599
guys who came out there and theo hog

1648
00:56:21,910 --> 00:56:19,520
they all had horrible experiences and

1649
00:56:24,789 --> 00:56:21,920
their families were affected

1650
00:56:27,349 --> 00:56:24,799
so if that new book that came out

1651
00:56:29,430 --> 00:56:27,359
was created to set the record straight

1652
00:56:30,549 --> 00:56:29,440
and everything in that book is factual

1653
00:56:32,150 --> 00:56:30,559
or real

1654
00:56:33,990 --> 00:56:32,160
and you're saying that these people had

1655
00:56:36,710 --> 00:56:34,000
all these horrible

1656
00:56:39,430 --> 00:56:36,720
experiences why the hell are we out

1657
00:56:42,150 --> 00:56:39,440
there on the ranch by ourselves

1658
00:56:44,710 --> 00:56:42,160
and definitely running and gunning

1659
00:56:46,710 --> 00:56:44,720
that's okay that's not okay you can't

1660
00:56:48,549 --> 00:56:46,720
keep you can't put people out there and

1661
00:56:50,950 --> 00:56:48,559
not tell them what's going on

1662
00:56:53,510 --> 00:56:50,960
i mean am i wrong here it seems like

1663
00:56:55,109 --> 00:56:53,520
imagine putting yourself in my situation

1664
00:56:57,270 --> 00:56:55,119
right put yourself in my situation for a

1665
00:56:58,870 --> 00:56:57,280
second and your job is to secure the

1666
00:57:01,030 --> 00:56:58,880
property collect data

1667
00:57:02,710 --> 00:57:01,040
and you're doing it as best as you can

1668
00:57:05,670 --> 00:57:02,720
and you do it for years and years and

1669
00:57:07,349 --> 00:57:05,680
years and then to come to find out

1670
00:57:08,549 --> 00:57:07,359
there was another program going on all

1671
00:57:10,390 --> 00:57:08,559
staff

1672
00:57:11,670 --> 00:57:10,400
and there was people that had horrible

1673
00:57:13,589 --> 00:57:11,680
experiences

1674
00:57:15,829 --> 00:57:13,599
that affected their families

1675
00:57:18,390 --> 00:57:15,839
and i had things happen to my family

1676
00:57:20,150 --> 00:57:18,400
horrible things that directly from the

1677
00:57:22,309 --> 00:57:20,160
ranch and i knew other colleagues of

1678
00:57:25,109 --> 00:57:22,319
mine had bad things so my family is

1679
00:57:27,430 --> 00:57:25,119
expendable my health is expendable

1680
00:57:29,430 --> 00:57:27,440
it's unacceptable and there that it's

1681
00:57:31,190 --> 00:57:29,440
it's a point that everybody just kind of

1682
00:57:33,109 --> 00:57:31,200
glazes over

1683
00:57:34,470 --> 00:57:33,119
and it's a point that needs to be at

1684
00:57:36,150 --> 00:57:34,480
some point there needs to be some

1685
00:57:37,190 --> 00:57:36,160
accountability or at least somebody

1686
00:57:38,789 --> 00:57:37,200
needs to call me up and have a

1687
00:57:40,309 --> 00:57:38,799
conversation because that's the right

1688
00:57:42,069 --> 00:57:40,319
thing to do because i feel like we're

1689
00:57:44,630 --> 00:57:42,079
just abandoned out there

1690
00:57:47,829 --> 00:57:44,640
with no there's no real direction

1691
00:57:48,630 --> 00:57:47,839
i'm so happy you brought this up because

1692
00:57:52,390 --> 00:57:48,640
the

1693
00:57:56,470 --> 00:57:52,400
i would say touchy subjects when it

1694
00:57:57,829 --> 00:57:56,480
comes to all of this is this idea

1695
00:58:00,309 --> 00:57:57,839
i'm just going to come out and say it

1696
00:58:02,950 --> 00:58:00,319
some people think that

1697
00:58:05,109 --> 00:58:02,960
people like you or even the current

1698
00:58:06,870 --> 00:58:05,119
people on the ranch

1699
00:58:09,349 --> 00:58:06,880
are being

1700
00:58:12,069 --> 00:58:09,359
i i hate using this word but we're being

1701
00:58:14,789 --> 00:58:12,079
used as like guinea pigs is the term

1702
00:58:17,190 --> 00:58:14,799
people have said you have people like um

1703
00:58:20,069 --> 00:58:17,200
travis taylor who got radiation

1704
00:58:22,470 --> 00:58:20,079
poisoning you had members of um you know

1705
00:58:23,910 --> 00:58:22,480
during your time other people who had

1706
00:58:26,230 --> 00:58:23,920
ailments or brought home these

1707
00:58:28,870 --> 00:58:26,240
hitchhiker effects as they've sort of

1708
00:58:30,710 --> 00:58:28,880
sort of coined it but um you know that's

1709
00:58:34,710 --> 00:58:30,720
the paranormal side then we have the

1710
00:58:36,390 --> 00:58:34,720
actual clinical physiological uh

1711
00:58:39,430 --> 00:58:36,400
ailments that have occurred on this

1712
00:58:41,829 --> 00:58:39,440
ranch so i i guess i'll just flat out

1713
00:58:43,430 --> 00:58:41,839
ask you what are your opinions on those

1714
00:58:46,230 --> 00:58:43,440
who do claim

1715
00:58:48,150 --> 00:58:46,240
that you guys were being used as some

1716
00:58:53,430 --> 00:58:48,160
sort of experiment

1717
00:58:56,950 --> 00:58:55,190
man i'll tell you

1718
00:58:57,990 --> 00:58:56,960
it puts me in a dark place it really

1719
00:58:59,910 --> 00:58:58,000
does

1720
00:59:02,390 --> 00:58:59,920
because i don't want to think that but

1721
00:59:04,950 --> 00:59:02,400
it's hard it's hard not to think that

1722
00:59:06,789 --> 00:59:04,960
when you look back at the timeline and

1723
00:59:09,109 --> 00:59:06,799
there was like a communication like i

1724
00:59:11,109 --> 00:59:09,119
said you know lack of equipment that's

1725
00:59:12,870 --> 00:59:11,119
that's no problem you know

1726
00:59:14,710 --> 00:59:12,880
that's just how it was

1727
00:59:16,470 --> 00:59:14,720
not having one working camera out there

1728
00:59:17,990 --> 00:59:16,480
that's suspect

1729
00:59:19,829 --> 00:59:18,000
your job for security you're supposed to

1730
00:59:21,349 --> 00:59:19,839
have some type of thing but

1731
00:59:22,950 --> 00:59:21,359
there's all these questions me and my

1732
00:59:24,789 --> 00:59:22,960
guys who worked out there we all kind of

1733
00:59:27,270 --> 00:59:24,799
joked around about that we're just lab

1734
00:59:30,470 --> 00:59:27,280
rats out here we joked around about that

1735
00:59:33,670 --> 00:59:30,480
but we never thought it was real

1736
00:59:36,069 --> 00:59:33,680
but i will say in 2019 i met a scientist

1737
00:59:38,390 --> 00:59:36,079
and that you went to basin and the first

1738
00:59:41,750 --> 00:59:38,400
three things he said to me

1739
00:59:44,230 --> 00:59:41,760
and this is in early 2019.

1740
00:59:46,069 --> 00:59:44,240
he said to me um

1741
00:59:47,349 --> 00:59:46,079
we had a private conversation actually

1742
00:59:49,670 --> 00:59:47,359
it wasn't private there was mother there

1743
00:59:51,990 --> 00:59:49,680
was other witnesses there

1744
00:59:53,750 --> 00:59:52,000
but the first thing he said to me was

1745
00:59:56,630 --> 00:59:53,760
did i know about radiation out here on

1746
00:59:57,829 --> 00:59:56,640
the property in utah in the basin i'm

1747
00:59:59,109 --> 00:59:57,839
like what

1748
01:00:00,390 --> 00:59:59,119
no

1749
01:00:02,470 --> 01:00:00,400
and then he said

1750
01:00:04,390 --> 01:00:02,480
did you know about 22 million dollars

1751
01:00:05,910 --> 01:00:04,400
and i was like no

1752
01:00:08,150 --> 01:00:05,920
and then the last thing he said to me

1753
01:00:09,829 --> 01:00:08,160
and when he said this my heart sunk into

1754
01:00:11,270 --> 01:00:09,839
my stomach he said

1755
01:00:14,150 --> 01:00:11,280
you know how does it feel to know you're

1756
01:00:15,750 --> 01:00:14,160
possibly a guinea pig in all this and i

1757
01:00:17,349 --> 01:00:15,760
remember saying

1758
01:00:18,630 --> 01:00:17,359
if that's true i don't feel very good

1759
01:00:19,589 --> 01:00:18,640
about it

1760
01:00:21,510 --> 01:00:19,599
and then

1761
01:00:22,710 --> 01:00:21,520
at that time my whole mind flipped

1762
01:00:24,710 --> 01:00:22,720
upside down

1763
01:00:26,230 --> 01:00:24,720
i'm like what the

1764
01:00:29,270 --> 01:00:26,240
then like all these memories started

1765
01:00:31,270 --> 01:00:29,280
coming back and um

1766
01:00:32,630 --> 01:00:31,280
i don't know it's i'm still left you

1767
01:00:34,069 --> 01:00:32,640
know from i'll be honest with you ryan

1768
01:00:36,870 --> 01:00:34,079
this whole thing about me even coming

1769
01:00:38,710 --> 01:00:36,880
out publicly in 2019 was probably never

1770
01:00:40,150 --> 01:00:38,720
supposed to happen

1771
01:00:42,950 --> 01:00:40,160
um but

1772
01:00:44,950 --> 01:00:42,960
i have questions that need answering and

1773
01:00:47,829 --> 01:00:44,960
i feel like every single time i open up

1774
01:00:49,990 --> 01:00:47,839
a door to or every time i close the door

1775
01:00:52,789 --> 01:00:50,000
two more open up

1776
01:00:55,109 --> 01:00:52,799
and it just blows my mind it really does

1777
01:00:56,630 --> 01:00:55,119
because i've served honorably for this

1778
01:00:58,950 --> 01:00:56,640
country i've done

1779
01:01:01,030 --> 01:00:58,960
i've sacrificed everything and

1780
01:01:04,230 --> 01:01:01,040
especially for the ranch i have i

1781
01:01:05,430 --> 01:01:04,240
sacrificed but my family has sacrificed

1782
01:01:09,750 --> 01:01:05,440
and

1783
01:01:13,510 --> 01:01:11,349
i don't i don't know what to say really

1784
01:01:15,190 --> 01:01:13,520
it really uh i don't have a lot of words

1785
01:01:16,950 --> 01:01:15,200
to say about it

1786
01:01:19,349 --> 01:01:16,960
i'm still trying to i'm just trying to

1787
01:01:22,069 --> 01:01:19,359
figure it out you know as best i can

1788
01:01:26,230 --> 01:01:23,349
i don't know

1789
01:01:28,630 --> 01:01:26,240
i you know meeting people like uh james

1790
01:01:30,309 --> 01:01:28,640
uh keenan and carl and some of the

1791
01:01:32,470 --> 01:01:30,319
people in the community online have

1792
01:01:33,750 --> 01:01:32,480
really helped me out a lot

1793
01:01:36,230 --> 01:01:33,760
and if it wasn't for them i'd probably

1794
01:01:38,069 --> 01:01:36,240
be in a pretty dark place and then i met

1795
01:01:40,630 --> 01:01:38,079
ross matla obviously with the university

1796
01:01:43,349 --> 01:01:40,640
of maryland and that was a huge

1797
01:01:45,349 --> 01:01:43,359
bonus because i was able to document

1798
01:01:47,270 --> 01:01:45,359
or i was able to donate my entire

1799
01:01:49,430 --> 01:01:47,280
skinwalker archive to the university of

1800
01:01:51,349 --> 01:01:49,440
maryland and for me that was a big

1801
01:01:54,150 --> 01:01:51,359
closure moment for me because i was able

1802
01:01:56,630 --> 01:01:54,160
to kind of lock away that

1803
01:01:57,829 --> 01:01:56,640
those memories and and and some of that

1804
01:01:59,750 --> 01:01:57,839
stuff

1805
01:02:01,510 --> 01:01:59,760
and and uh in a place that will always

1806
01:02:03,589 --> 01:02:01,520
be there forever and my kids can go back

1807
01:02:05,589 --> 01:02:03,599
and view that the photography and it's

1808
01:02:07,510 --> 01:02:05,599
just awesome you know it's ross matlow

1809
01:02:09,430 --> 01:02:07,520
at the university of maryland

1810
01:02:11,349 --> 01:02:09,440
um he really helped me out and it's

1811
01:02:13,589 --> 01:02:11,359
because it's because toros saw something

1812
01:02:15,109 --> 01:02:13,599
online you saw i had an artistic eye

1813
01:02:17,349 --> 01:02:15,119
and he also was like whoa this is skin

1814
01:02:18,870 --> 01:02:17,359
walker ranch nobody has ever posted

1815
01:02:22,150 --> 01:02:18,880
pictures like this before on skinwalker

1816
01:02:23,430 --> 01:02:22,160
ranch and i did it i post those pictures

1817
01:02:25,029 --> 01:02:23,440
online because i want to show people

1818
01:02:27,029 --> 01:02:25,039
that it wasn't all scary it was all

1819
01:02:29,109 --> 01:02:27,039
beautiful it was there was some dark

1820
01:02:31,190 --> 01:02:29,119
times out there but it's also

1821
01:02:32,870 --> 01:02:31,200
some gorgeous times out there but for me

1822
01:02:35,109 --> 01:02:32,880
when i look back at my photography i

1823
01:02:36,710 --> 01:02:35,119
look back at my photography now and it

1824
01:02:39,109 --> 01:02:36,720
puts me in that mind frame of being

1825
01:02:41,109 --> 01:02:39,119
alone out there and using my photography

1826
01:02:42,549 --> 01:02:41,119
to kind of get through the weeks

1827
01:02:43,990 --> 01:02:42,559
and get through some of the sketchy

1828
01:02:45,430 --> 01:02:44,000
because i'll tell you walking from

1829
01:02:46,870 --> 01:02:45,440
homestead one

1830
01:02:48,230 --> 01:02:46,880
all the way down to the west gate at

1831
01:02:49,430 --> 01:02:48,240
night at two o'clock in the morning and

1832
01:02:51,670 --> 01:02:49,440
you're by yourself and you've got a

1833
01:02:53,430 --> 01:02:51,680
couple dogs with you

1834
01:02:55,109 --> 01:02:53,440
there's some nights where you get to

1835
01:02:57,029 --> 01:02:55,119
homestead too and you feel like you know

1836
01:02:58,950 --> 01:02:57,039
what something's telling me not to keep

1837
01:03:00,390 --> 01:02:58,960
going forward i need to go and i would i

1838
01:03:01,750 --> 01:03:00,400
would listen to my gut extent all the

1839
01:03:03,670 --> 01:03:01,760
time because i felt like you're always

1840
01:03:06,630 --> 01:03:03,680
being washed out there

1841
01:03:08,630 --> 01:03:06,640
yeah so i don't know i mean

1842
01:03:10,309 --> 01:03:08,640
i don't have any ill feelings to my

1843
01:03:12,230 --> 01:03:10,319
previous employer that shocks a lot of

1844
01:03:13,589 --> 01:03:12,240
people people think that oh my god you

1845
01:03:16,069 --> 01:03:13,599
should definitely have

1846
01:03:17,750 --> 01:03:16,079
why how's that going to help because if

1847
01:03:19,829 --> 01:03:17,760
you really talk about disclosure and

1848
01:03:21,270 --> 01:03:19,839
discovering the truth

1849
01:03:22,870 --> 01:03:21,280
i hate to say it but it comes with

1850
01:03:24,150 --> 01:03:22,880
sacrifices

1851
01:03:25,910 --> 01:03:24,160
it does

1852
01:03:27,109 --> 01:03:25,920
so in this situation i played my

1853
01:03:29,109 --> 01:03:27,119
position

1854
01:03:31,029 --> 01:03:29,119
of what i was supposed to do

1855
01:03:32,870 --> 01:03:31,039
other people play their position and

1856
01:03:33,670 --> 01:03:32,880
that's how these special access programs

1857
01:03:36,150 --> 01:03:33,680
work

1858
01:03:37,589 --> 01:03:36,160
however in most special access programs

1859
01:03:39,670 --> 01:03:37,599
there's a constant open form of

1860
01:03:41,349 --> 01:03:39,680
communication where everybody's on the

1861
01:03:44,549 --> 01:03:41,359
same playing field and there's

1862
01:03:45,750 --> 01:03:44,559
information spreading very openly

1863
01:03:47,750 --> 01:03:45,760
because in this situation with

1864
01:03:49,589 --> 01:03:47,760
skinwalker because there was a lack of

1865
01:03:51,750 --> 01:03:49,599
communication most the guys including

1866
01:03:53,109 --> 01:03:51,760
myself didn't report half the stuff that

1867
01:03:55,190 --> 01:03:53,119
we experienced because it seemed like

1868
01:03:56,710 --> 01:03:55,200
nobody cared

1869
01:03:58,549 --> 01:03:56,720
that's the truth it seemed like nobody

1870
01:04:00,470 --> 01:03:58,559
cared because

1871
01:04:02,630 --> 01:04:00,480
we would i why why am i spending the

1872
01:04:04,789 --> 01:04:02,640
money there was a time where i would be

1873
01:04:07,430 --> 01:04:04,799
inside homestead 2 sitting in a lawn

1874
01:04:09,589 --> 01:04:07,440
chair at 2 o'clock in the morning by

1875
01:04:11,510 --> 01:04:09,599
myself trying to make contact with

1876
01:04:12,870 --> 01:04:11,520
whatever out there

1877
01:04:15,270 --> 01:04:12,880
and i remember one night thinking to

1878
01:04:16,390 --> 01:04:15,280
myself what the hell am i doing

1879
01:04:25,270 --> 01:04:16,400
i

1880
01:04:27,510 --> 01:04:25,280
not the escape to stop them and they get

1881
01:04:29,349 --> 01:04:27,520
on here and they vandalize or they steal

1882
01:04:31,109 --> 01:04:29,359
something at the time we have the ranch

1883
01:04:32,230 --> 01:04:31,119
managers on there what if somebody gets

1884
01:04:33,829 --> 01:04:32,240
hurt

1885
01:04:35,510 --> 01:04:33,839
and then here's the best part

1886
01:04:36,950 --> 01:04:35,520
so i'm in the homesteads and this is all

1887
01:04:39,349 --> 01:04:36,960
playing the back of my mind i'm

1888
01:04:41,270 --> 01:04:39,359
constantly operating the red zone

1889
01:04:43,430 --> 01:04:41,280
and then it's not like i clock out and i

1890
01:04:45,270 --> 01:04:43,440
go home or i go down to a hotel than to

1891
01:04:47,430 --> 01:04:45,280
go to sleep no i go to sleep at

1892
01:04:49,910 --> 01:04:47,440
homestead one

1893
01:04:52,230 --> 01:04:49,920
at skinwalker ranch and i remember every

1894
01:04:54,230 --> 01:04:52,240
night closing my eyes thinking to myself

1895
01:04:56,069 --> 01:04:54,240
i hope nobody gets on the property and

1896
01:04:58,710 --> 01:04:56,079
puts a bullet in my head

1897
01:05:00,870 --> 01:04:58,720
because during my time during my time we

1898
01:05:02,309 --> 01:05:00,880
had legitimate threats from locals that

1899
01:05:04,309 --> 01:05:02,319
wanted to shoot one of us to prove that

1900
01:05:05,430 --> 01:05:04,319
we were that we were either cursed or a

1901
01:05:07,029 --> 01:05:05,440
hybrid

1902
01:05:09,430 --> 01:05:07,039
so all this is going in the back of your

1903
01:05:11,270 --> 01:05:09,440
mind so psychologically

1904
01:05:13,910 --> 01:05:11,280
you're just pegged out man you're just

1905
01:05:15,750 --> 01:05:13,920
like operating you know

1906
01:05:17,270 --> 01:05:15,760
and all this stuff come all this stuff

1907
01:05:18,710 --> 01:05:17,280
comes out tv shows come out

1908
01:05:21,670 --> 01:05:18,720
documentaries come out and i'm just

1909
01:05:24,069 --> 01:05:21,680
sitting there like are you kidding me

1910
01:05:25,510 --> 01:05:24,079
are you seriously kidding me

1911
01:05:27,829 --> 01:05:25,520
and i'll tell you what man there's been

1912
01:05:30,789 --> 01:05:27,839
about 15 times where i've just about

1913
01:05:32,710 --> 01:05:30,799
almost just packed everything up

1914
01:05:34,710 --> 01:05:32,720
deleting all my accounts and just let

1915
01:05:36,630 --> 01:05:34,720
the narrative play out

1916
01:05:38,150 --> 01:05:36,640
and say

1917
01:05:39,910 --> 01:05:38,160
i guess it'll be like another mk ultra

1918
01:05:41,910 --> 01:05:39,920
deal like when i'm 70 years old i'll

1919
01:05:43,270 --> 01:05:41,920
find out what was going on at skinwalker

1920
01:05:44,870 --> 01:05:43,280
ranch you know

1921
01:05:46,390 --> 01:05:44,880
i don't know i have a lot of unanswered

1922
01:05:47,589 --> 01:05:46,400
questions

1923
01:05:51,029 --> 01:05:47,599
and

1924
01:05:53,109 --> 01:05:51,039
i'm i'm i'm pat my patience is gone now

1925
01:05:54,870 --> 01:05:53,119
it really is

1926
01:05:56,870 --> 01:05:54,880
and i'm just trying to close the door

1927
01:05:59,270 --> 01:05:56,880
for my kids that's it i have three young

1928
01:06:01,270 --> 01:05:59,280
men i'm trying to raise

1929
01:06:02,829 --> 01:06:01,280
and to know that my time on skinwalker

1930
01:06:05,029 --> 01:06:02,839
ranch may have affected my health

1931
01:06:06,230 --> 01:06:05,039
negative where time is not taken away

1932
01:06:07,670 --> 01:06:06,240
from me

1933
01:06:09,589 --> 01:06:07,680
because of my long-term exposure out

1934
01:06:11,430 --> 01:06:09,599
there i will tell you that does not sit

1935
01:06:12,710 --> 01:06:11,440
very well with me

1936
01:06:13,750 --> 01:06:12,720
and i don't think it would for any

1937
01:06:16,549 --> 01:06:13,760
father

1938
01:06:18,789 --> 01:06:16,559
yeah you know absolutely i

1939
01:06:21,270 --> 01:06:18,799
everything you have said um

1940
01:06:23,670 --> 01:06:21,280
i'm sure is resonating with a hell of a

1941
01:06:26,549 --> 01:06:23,680
lot of first of all veterans out there

1942
01:06:29,029 --> 01:06:26,559
and second of all just human beings is

1943
01:06:32,069 --> 01:06:29,039
what you've done in sacrifice for your

1944
01:06:34,309 --> 01:06:32,079
country for um for the scientific

1945
01:06:36,549 --> 01:06:34,319
community supposedly that's what they

1946
01:06:39,750 --> 01:06:36,559
wanted were scientific answers and

1947
01:06:41,349 --> 01:06:39,760
beyond so um you know before i move on

1948
01:06:43,750 --> 01:06:41,359
here uh thank you

1949
01:06:45,829 --> 01:06:43,760
thank you for your service thank you for

1950
01:06:46,710 --> 01:06:45,839
what you did on the ranch thank you for

1951
01:06:48,789 --> 01:06:46,720
um

1952
01:06:51,109 --> 01:06:48,799
for opening yourself up to that and

1953
01:06:53,109 --> 01:06:51,119
making those sacrifices because i think

1954
01:06:55,430 --> 01:06:53,119
we are getting closer to answers and i'm

1955
01:06:57,750 --> 01:06:55,440
happy you didn't pack up and just leave

1956
01:07:00,390 --> 01:06:57,760
because i do honestly feel that your

1957
01:07:03,190 --> 01:07:00,400
contribution to this skinwalker mystery

1958
01:07:05,670 --> 01:07:03,200
uh is essential showing the light i

1959
01:07:07,029 --> 01:07:05,680
think again all we get is the spooky

1960
01:07:10,069 --> 01:07:07,039
[\h__\h] and the

1961
01:07:12,470 --> 01:07:10,079
you know the really um sensational stuff

1962
01:07:14,470 --> 01:07:12,480
and then you have like you said with the

1963
01:07:17,630 --> 01:07:14,480
uh the photo exhibition at the

1964
01:07:20,470 --> 01:07:17,640
university uh that shows how

1965
01:07:23,349 --> 01:07:20,480
unbelievably beautiful this ranch and

1966
01:07:25,109 --> 01:07:23,359
this basin in this state are so yeah

1967
01:07:26,069 --> 01:07:25,119
yeah first of all thank you for all of

1968
01:07:33,270 --> 01:07:26,079
that

1969
01:07:35,270 --> 01:07:33,280
um

1970
01:07:36,950 --> 01:07:35,280
you know my my layer of skin walker

1971
01:07:38,630 --> 01:07:36,960
ranch is the right answer with the

1972
01:07:40,470 --> 01:07:38,640
native american stuff i'm just saying to

1973
01:07:43,349 --> 01:07:40,480
me personally it's probably the most

1974
01:07:44,870 --> 01:07:43,359
important layer because i feel like

1975
01:07:46,390 --> 01:07:44,880
it's overlooked

1976
01:07:48,710 --> 01:07:46,400
but all the stuff that the new team's

1977
01:07:51,109 --> 01:07:48,720
doing with all the scientific stuff that

1978
01:07:51,829 --> 01:07:51,119
they've collected it's unbelievable i

1979
01:07:53,109 --> 01:07:51,839
mean

1980
01:07:55,270 --> 01:07:53,119
i've been on there i've been back on

1981
01:07:57,270 --> 01:07:55,280
skinwalker ranch now several times with

1982
01:07:58,950 --> 01:07:57,280
or without the film crew i've gone out

1983
01:08:00,150 --> 01:07:58,960
there on my own with and met with the

1984
01:08:02,470 --> 01:08:00,160
team and helped them with other

1985
01:08:04,549 --> 01:08:02,480
investigations and they've shown me data

1986
01:08:06,309 --> 01:08:04,559
and it blows me away the stuff that

1987
01:08:08,150 --> 01:08:06,319
you've collected you know you've got

1988
01:08:10,710 --> 01:08:08,160
eric bart out there with brandon

1989
01:08:12,789 --> 01:08:10,720
fuegle's team that guy gets it and he's

1990
01:08:14,710 --> 01:08:12,799
invested his energy out there and he's

1991
01:08:16,229 --> 01:08:14,720
out there and he's not messing around he

1992
01:08:18,149 --> 01:08:16,239
doesn't care about no tv show i'll tell

1993
01:08:19,910 --> 01:08:18,159
you that right now he does not care one

1994
01:08:21,910 --> 01:08:19,920
single damn about a tv show he's out

1995
01:08:23,590 --> 01:08:21,920
there really trying to figure out on a

1996
01:08:24,709 --> 01:08:23,600
scientific level what's going on out

1997
01:08:26,550 --> 01:08:24,719
there and i think that's extremely

1998
01:08:28,789 --> 01:08:26,560
important and then you have thomas

1999
01:08:29,990 --> 01:08:28,799
winterton and caleb bench out there that

2000
01:08:31,189 --> 01:08:30,000
are locals and they're out there all the

2001
01:08:33,030 --> 01:08:31,199
time too

2002
01:08:35,030 --> 01:08:33,040
those guys they truly get it you know

2003
01:08:36,950 --> 01:08:35,040
and they put in that equity to

2004
01:08:38,870 --> 01:08:36,960
understand i mean you know there's so

2005
01:08:40,149 --> 01:08:38,880
many overlapping layers with skinwalker

2006
01:08:41,430 --> 01:08:40,159
ranch

2007
01:08:43,189 --> 01:08:41,440
it's just

2008
01:08:45,510 --> 01:08:43,199
if there's magnetic anomalies around

2009
01:08:46,709 --> 01:08:45,520
there and maybe that's what draw maybe

2010
01:08:48,950 --> 01:08:46,719
that's what drew the natives out there

2011
01:08:50,390 --> 01:08:48,960
to begin with it was those anomalies you

2012
01:08:51,590 --> 01:08:50,400
know um

2013
01:08:52,870 --> 01:08:51,600
maybe that's what drew them out there to

2014
01:08:54,470 --> 01:08:52,880
begin with

2015
01:08:56,229 --> 01:08:54,480
and there's all kinds of stuff i mean

2016
01:08:57,910 --> 01:08:56,239
i'm just one piece of the puzzle i'm not

2017
01:08:59,829 --> 01:08:57,920
saying i'm the

2018
01:09:01,669 --> 01:08:59,839
skin walker expert by any means but i

2019
01:09:03,430 --> 01:09:01,679
just feel like i have some very

2020
01:09:05,430 --> 01:09:03,440
important data and i like to i

2021
01:09:06,950 --> 01:09:05,440
appreciate your time for me to allow

2022
01:09:08,229 --> 01:09:06,960
me to share some of that data with other

2023
01:09:11,189 --> 01:09:08,239
people that might have these questions

2024
01:09:15,990 --> 01:09:13,829
do you like stories of the strange the

2025
01:09:18,870 --> 01:09:16,000
weird and the unexplained then we want

2026
01:09:21,590 --> 01:09:18,880
you to check out jim harold's campfire

2027
01:09:24,309 --> 01:09:21,600
the concept is pretty simple jim talks

2028
01:09:26,470 --> 01:09:24,319
to regular people about strange stuff

2029
01:09:30,149 --> 01:09:26,480
that happens to them and yes that

2030
01:09:32,709 --> 01:09:30,159
includes ufos along with cryptids ghosts

2031
01:09:35,829 --> 01:09:32,719
and head scratchers he doesn't

2032
01:09:37,910 --> 01:09:35,839
exaggerate or play a lot of spooky music

2033
01:09:40,789 --> 01:09:37,920
kind of like i'm doing right now the

2034
01:09:43,510 --> 01:09:40,799
stories speak for themselves one's like

2035
01:09:46,149 --> 01:09:43,520
a ghost story involving serial killer

2036
01:09:49,510 --> 01:09:46,159
ted bundy or the young man who

2037
01:09:51,990 --> 01:09:49,520
encountered an eight-legged demon then

2038
01:09:54,790 --> 01:09:52,000
there's the story of an alien abduction

2039
01:09:57,669 --> 01:09:54,800
by what could be considered a reptilian

2040
01:09:59,990 --> 01:09:57,679
now not all the stories are horrifying

2041
01:10:02,390 --> 01:10:00,000
some are actually pretty heartwarming

2042
01:10:05,270 --> 01:10:02,400
like a visit from a past loved one

2043
01:10:08,149 --> 01:10:05,280
or a peaceful near-death experience

2044
01:10:11,189 --> 01:10:08,159
regardless these are true and

2045
01:10:13,189 --> 01:10:11,199
fascinating stories told by ordinary

2046
01:10:14,870 --> 01:10:13,199
people who've had extraordinary

2047
01:10:17,430 --> 01:10:14,880
experiences

2048
01:10:20,950 --> 01:10:17,440
tune in to jim harold's campfire on

2049
01:10:23,270 --> 01:10:20,960
apple podcasts spotify or wherever you

2050
01:10:24,550 --> 01:10:23,280
listen to somewhere in the skies

2051
01:10:31,510 --> 01:10:24,560
and remember

2052
01:10:36,950 --> 01:10:33,669
hey guys ryan here the summer in the

2053
01:10:39,110 --> 01:10:36,960
skies podcast is a labor of love every

2054
01:10:41,510 --> 01:10:39,120
week and with that comes many different

2055
01:10:44,229 --> 01:10:41,520
costs to keep the show running that's

2056
01:10:46,390 --> 01:10:44,239
where our patreon campaign comes in you

2057
01:10:48,709 --> 01:10:46,400
give what you think the show is worth

2058
01:10:50,630 --> 01:10:48,719
there's different rewards available all

2059
01:10:53,189 --> 01:10:50,640
the time including shout outs on the

2060
01:10:55,990 --> 01:10:53,199
show early editions of main episodes

2061
01:10:58,470 --> 01:10:56,000
bonus episodes and content and very soon

2062
01:11:01,830 --> 01:10:58,480
monthly patron hangouts where we sit

2063
01:11:03,590 --> 01:11:01,840
back and chat all things ufos so i hope

2064
01:11:06,070 --> 01:11:03,600
you'll consider becoming a patreon

2065
01:11:09,430 --> 01:11:06,080
subscriber today to learn more and to

2066
01:11:12,229 --> 01:11:09,440
join visit patreon.com

2067
01:11:20,149 --> 01:11:12,239
summerskies thank you for your support

2068
01:11:23,430 --> 01:11:21,990
well chris i've got some listener

2069
01:11:25,189 --> 01:11:23,440
questions for you man if you're willing

2070
01:11:27,110 --> 01:11:25,199
to stick around some people really

2071
01:11:29,030 --> 01:11:27,120
wanted to uh ask you some burning

2072
01:11:30,229 --> 01:11:29,040
questions here is that cool

2073
01:11:32,709 --> 01:11:30,239
absolutely

2074
01:11:34,550 --> 01:11:32,719
awesome um i'm gonna start with melanie

2075
01:11:36,470 --> 01:11:34,560
melanie as one of our patreon

2076
01:11:38,070 --> 01:11:36,480
subscribers and our patron members

2077
01:11:40,630 --> 01:11:38,080
actually get priority

2078
01:11:42,709 --> 01:11:40,640
to ask our guests questions um so she's

2079
01:11:44,470 --> 01:11:42,719
got a really good one here she says the

2080
01:11:47,030 --> 01:11:44,480
burning question for me is what does

2081
01:11:49,110 --> 01:11:47,040
chris think is really happening at the

2082
01:11:51,350 --> 01:11:49,120
ranch current research being done seems

2083
01:11:53,189 --> 01:11:51,360
to lean towards portals what does he

2084
01:11:55,270 --> 01:11:53,199
think about that yeah this whole portal

2085
01:11:57,030 --> 01:11:55,280
aspect you know um not only are we

2086
01:11:59,430 --> 01:11:57,040
hearing that like maybe this is where

2087
01:12:01,990 --> 01:11:59,440
the uap are coming in and out of but

2088
01:12:03,750 --> 01:12:02,000
also that the tribes have used these

2089
01:12:05,750 --> 01:12:03,760
portals as well they're part of the

2090
01:12:08,390 --> 01:12:05,760
petroglyphs so what do you make of that

2091
01:12:10,870 --> 01:12:08,400
whole aspect to this the portals right i

2092
01:12:12,470 --> 01:12:10,880
i think that

2093
01:12:14,870 --> 01:12:12,480
the portals is a good possibility

2094
01:12:15,910 --> 01:12:14,880
because not only did

2095
01:12:17,510 --> 01:12:15,920
um

2096
01:12:19,110 --> 01:12:17,520
the the current team out there now has

2097
01:12:21,990 --> 01:12:19,120
documented some pretty rare anomalies in

2098
01:12:23,590 --> 01:12:22,000
the skies and stuff but also nids uh

2099
01:12:24,950 --> 01:12:23,600
said they saw portable stuff activity

2100
01:12:27,030 --> 01:12:24,960
out there as well

2101
01:12:28,709 --> 01:12:27,040
and uh

2102
01:12:30,470 --> 01:12:28,719
being out there myself i never saw

2103
01:12:31,910 --> 01:12:30,480
anything like that but

2104
01:12:33,590 --> 01:12:31,920
going back to some of my old pictures

2105
01:12:35,030 --> 01:12:33,600
you know i've got like 3 000 images of

2106
01:12:36,550 --> 01:12:35,040
the ranch during that time i've tried to

2107
01:12:37,669 --> 01:12:36,560
kind of go back and

2108
01:12:39,030 --> 01:12:37,679
and uh

2109
01:12:40,709 --> 01:12:39,040
see if i missed something that was one

2110
01:12:41,910 --> 01:12:40,719
of the reasons why i donated those uh

2111
01:12:43,830 --> 01:12:41,920
pictures of the archive to the

2112
01:12:45,990 --> 01:12:43,840
university of maryland so more eyes can

2113
01:12:46,950 --> 01:12:46,000
see that that uh those pictures

2114
01:12:48,870 --> 01:12:46,960
but um

2115
01:12:52,390 --> 01:12:48,880
i think everything is native american

2116
01:12:53,910 --> 01:12:52,400
based in my personal opinion um the

2117
01:12:55,110 --> 01:12:53,920
evidence of the you know follow the data

2118
01:12:56,709 --> 01:12:55,120
well the data is all around the whole

2119
01:12:58,310 --> 01:12:56,719
unit the baseline it's not just

2120
01:12:59,350 --> 01:12:58,320
skinwalker ranch it's the whole uintah

2121
01:13:02,310 --> 01:12:59,360
basin

2122
01:13:04,390 --> 01:13:02,320
and uh there's there's petroglyphs uh in

2123
01:13:05,750 --> 01:13:04,400
mckees springs that show portal activity

2124
01:13:08,070 --> 01:13:05,760
or portals

2125
01:13:09,350 --> 01:13:08,080
and things coming out of portals um so

2126
01:13:11,110 --> 01:13:09,360
when you see that you wonder you know

2127
01:13:12,070 --> 01:13:11,120
what the hell is going on

2128
01:13:13,830 --> 01:13:12,080
um

2129
01:13:15,750 --> 01:13:13,840
skin walker ranch it might be another

2130
01:13:17,350 --> 01:13:15,760
location where people were drawn to to

2131
01:13:18,870 --> 01:13:17,360
see these things or have

2132
01:13:20,310 --> 01:13:18,880
experiences they know the fremont

2133
01:13:21,750 --> 01:13:20,320
indians that were there

2134
01:13:23,830 --> 01:13:21,760
they were there for a thousand years and

2135
01:13:25,910 --> 01:13:23,840
like fell off the map but people locals

2136
01:13:27,030 --> 01:13:25,920
say that the fremonts almost appeared

2137
01:13:29,350 --> 01:13:27,040
out of nowhere

2138
01:13:31,270 --> 01:13:29,360
so and also giants

2139
01:13:32,790 --> 01:13:31,280
there's talk about giants coming through

2140
01:13:34,709 --> 01:13:32,800
portals and stuff and

2141
01:13:36,070 --> 01:13:34,719
that's more james king's expertise i

2142
01:13:38,070 --> 01:13:36,080
would highly recommend you have him on

2143
01:13:39,350 --> 01:13:38,080
the show he knows a lot more about that

2144
01:13:41,350 --> 01:13:39,360
stuff

2145
01:13:43,350 --> 01:13:41,360
my primary focus is obviously the native

2146
01:13:46,709 --> 01:13:43,360
american artifacts and the history and

2147
01:13:48,550 --> 01:13:46,719
the photography and that type of stuff

2148
01:13:51,030 --> 01:13:48,560
what uh what were some of those

2149
01:13:52,709 --> 01:13:51,040
artifacts that you came across um would

2150
01:13:55,910 --> 01:13:52,719
you mind sharing maybe a couple of those

2151
01:13:59,590 --> 01:13:57,430
the first artifact i found was in the

2152
01:14:00,390 --> 01:13:59,600
eastern valley it was actually a knife

2153
01:14:02,870 --> 01:14:00,400
blade

2154
01:14:04,310 --> 01:14:02,880
and how i found it was bizarre i had

2155
01:14:05,830 --> 01:14:04,320
this routine that i would go with the

2156
01:14:08,470 --> 01:14:05,840
dogs and we'd walk around the whole

2157
01:14:10,790 --> 01:14:08,480
entire property and we'd end up

2158
01:14:12,550 --> 01:14:10,800
and have lunch in the eastern valley on

2159
01:14:14,550 --> 01:14:12,560
this rock table out there

2160
01:14:16,790 --> 01:14:14,560
and i'd feed the dogs

2161
01:14:18,790 --> 01:14:16,800
food and water and i would kind of sit

2162
01:14:21,110 --> 01:14:18,800
there and just absorb the area

2163
01:14:22,390 --> 01:14:21,120
and i laid my backpack down

2164
01:14:24,790 --> 01:14:22,400
and uh

2165
01:14:26,229 --> 01:14:24,800
i went to pick up my backpack and i must

2166
01:14:28,470 --> 01:14:26,239
have missed it but laying next to my

2167
01:14:30,870 --> 01:14:28,480
backpack was a silver

2168
01:14:31,750 --> 01:14:30,880
um granite arrowhead i'm like what the

2169
01:14:33,830 --> 01:14:31,760
hell

2170
01:14:36,310 --> 01:14:33,840
and i picked it up and i'm like whoa

2171
01:14:37,669 --> 01:14:36,320
and my whole mind kind of shifted and i

2172
01:14:40,950 --> 01:14:37,679
kind of do a grid pattern around the

2173
01:14:42,550 --> 01:14:40,960
property i'd find you know axe heads

2174
01:14:45,669 --> 01:14:42,560
grindstones

2175
01:14:47,430 --> 01:14:45,679
um you agate is very important to the to

2176
01:14:48,950 --> 01:14:47,440
the locals that are out there and the

2177
01:14:51,590 --> 01:14:48,960
indigenous tribes before that because

2178
01:14:53,510 --> 01:14:51,600
you agate is what was used to make tools

2179
01:14:56,229 --> 01:14:53,520
and weapons and stuff like that so when

2180
01:14:58,149 --> 01:14:56,239
you find you agate deposits you're going

2181
01:15:00,229 --> 01:14:58,159
to find flaking and stuff like that and

2182
01:15:01,990 --> 01:15:00,239
bottle hollow has a lot of you again

2183
01:15:03,990 --> 01:15:02,000
around it as well

2184
01:15:05,910 --> 01:15:04,000
and so i found another area

2185
01:15:06,870 --> 01:15:05,920
there's actually a hollow rock

2186
01:15:09,189 --> 01:15:06,880
and

2187
01:15:11,510 --> 01:15:09,199
i found a bunch of sweat stones around

2188
01:15:13,830 --> 01:15:11,520
this rock so that area was used for

2189
01:15:15,430 --> 01:15:13,840
cereal ceremonial purposes

2190
01:15:17,430 --> 01:15:15,440
and that's pretty significant because

2191
01:15:19,510 --> 01:15:17,440
the area kind of showed signs of maybe

2192
01:15:20,870 --> 01:15:19,520
one or two people living there like it

2193
01:15:21,590 --> 01:15:20,880
was nomadic

2194
01:15:24,790 --> 01:15:21,600
so

2195
01:15:26,790 --> 01:15:24,800
maybe a skinwalker i don't know um

2196
01:15:29,350 --> 01:15:26,800
and then i found stuff in the in in

2197
01:15:31,030 --> 01:15:29,360
blind frog ranch i found stuff pretty

2198
01:15:33,270 --> 01:15:31,040
much anywhere and then you went to base

2199
01:15:34,870 --> 01:15:33,280
and if i truck out my eyes are always on

2200
01:15:36,630 --> 01:15:34,880
the ground looking because my

2201
01:15:39,030 --> 01:15:36,640
grandfather back here in kansas when i

2202
01:15:41,110 --> 01:15:39,040
was a kid when i was a young kid

2203
01:15:43,189 --> 01:15:41,120
he would take me out to his local fields

2204
01:15:44,550 --> 01:15:43,199
and rivers and streams and he would get

2205
01:15:45,830 --> 01:15:44,560
permission from all the land owners

2206
01:15:48,630 --> 01:15:45,840
because he used to work for the rock

2207
01:15:50,070 --> 01:15:48,640
quarry so he knew all the local farmers

2208
01:15:51,750 --> 01:15:50,080
and so he would get permission to go

2209
01:15:53,430 --> 01:15:51,760
look for rocks on their property and i

2210
01:15:55,590 --> 01:15:53,440
would go out with them every sunday and

2211
01:15:57,350 --> 01:15:55,600
he would show me what to look for in the

2212
01:15:58,709 --> 01:15:57,360
do's and don't and the do's and don'ts

2213
01:16:00,070 --> 01:15:58,719
you know if there's a burial site you

2214
01:16:01,830 --> 01:16:00,080
don't mess with it

2215
01:16:03,189 --> 01:16:01,840
and other things what to look for areas

2216
01:16:04,790 --> 01:16:03,199
of interest and

2217
01:16:05,910 --> 01:16:04,800
my grandfather really is one who trained

2218
01:16:07,270 --> 01:16:05,920
me to look for that stuff i didn't

2219
01:16:08,709 --> 01:16:07,280
really put it together until i got to

2220
01:16:11,910 --> 01:16:08,719
the ranch

2221
01:16:15,189 --> 01:16:11,920
and uh yeah i found all kinds of stuff

2222
01:16:18,229 --> 01:16:15,199
it all happened for a reason i loved it

2223
01:16:20,149 --> 01:16:18,239
amy amy on patreon also asks uh you know

2224
01:16:23,430 --> 01:16:20,159
a lot of the experiments this this

2225
01:16:24,950 --> 01:16:23,440
season on the show um we had evidence of

2226
01:16:28,229 --> 01:16:24,960
possible like

2227
01:16:30,149 --> 01:16:28,239
uh cloaking almost like invisibility you

2228
01:16:32,870 --> 01:16:30,159
know in the one of the last episodes of

2229
01:16:35,430 --> 01:16:32,880
the tv show um you know they set these

2230
01:16:37,910 --> 01:16:35,440
rockets up to try to gather data and

2231
01:16:39,590 --> 01:16:37,920
it's almost as if like these rockets

2232
01:16:42,070 --> 01:16:39,600
bounced off and went in another

2233
01:16:45,110 --> 01:16:42,080
direction in the triangle this area that

2234
01:16:47,990 --> 01:16:45,120
you're very familiar with right and um

2235
01:16:49,590 --> 01:16:48,000
i i guess amy wants to know uh any

2236
01:16:51,669 --> 01:16:49,600
evidence when you were there or anything

2237
01:16:54,390 --> 01:16:51,679
you heard about with like cloaking

2238
01:16:56,470 --> 01:16:54,400
technology or possible invisibility

2239
01:16:58,630 --> 01:16:56,480
stuff whether in the sky or on the

2240
01:17:00,149 --> 01:16:58,640
ground no

2241
01:17:02,229 --> 01:17:00,159
no but i mean you always get that

2242
01:17:02,950 --> 01:17:02,239
sensation like you're being watched you

2243
01:17:04,950 --> 01:17:02,960
know

2244
01:17:06,550 --> 01:17:04,960
right it always felt like being a watch

2245
01:17:07,830 --> 01:17:06,560
and sometimes it wasn't just while

2246
01:17:08,950 --> 01:17:07,840
you're out walking around there was a

2247
01:17:10,790 --> 01:17:08,960
lot of times

2248
01:17:13,110 --> 01:17:10,800
i'd be at home i would be i'd be at

2249
01:17:14,950 --> 01:17:13,120
homestead one skyping with my wife and

2250
01:17:18,470 --> 01:17:14,960
um i would feel like somebody was

2251
01:17:20,149 --> 01:17:18,480
watching me inside the homestead

2252
01:17:22,070 --> 01:17:20,159
it used to freak me out but then after a

2253
01:17:23,910 --> 01:17:22,080
while you get kind of used to it

2254
01:17:25,510 --> 01:17:23,920
there was one time i'll never forget

2255
01:17:27,990 --> 01:17:25,520
this and i've never i've never mentioned

2256
01:17:29,750 --> 01:17:28,000
this before but there was one time i was

2257
01:17:33,430 --> 01:17:29,760
it was in the daytime and i was walking

2258
01:17:36,790 --> 01:17:33,440
from homestead 2 down to homestead 3

2259
01:17:38,630 --> 01:17:36,800
and uh right in between there

2260
01:17:40,470 --> 01:17:38,640
i felt like something was

2261
01:17:42,149 --> 01:17:40,480
in the southern tree line like

2262
01:17:44,310 --> 01:17:42,159
staring at me stalking at me to the

2263
01:17:47,350 --> 01:17:44,320
point where i actually turned around and

2264
01:17:49,750 --> 01:17:47,360
faced it and was like

2265
01:17:51,669 --> 01:17:49,760
something's in that tree line and i sat

2266
01:17:54,149 --> 01:17:51,679
there for like five ten minutes

2267
01:17:55,750 --> 01:17:54,159
with like this ham like this

2268
01:17:57,350 --> 01:17:55,760
maybe it was my imagination or something

2269
01:17:58,790 --> 01:17:57,360
i don't know but it was weird

2270
01:18:00,550 --> 01:17:58,800
but i felt like something was always

2271
01:18:02,070 --> 01:18:00,560
there i know my some of my previous

2272
01:18:03,750 --> 01:18:02,080
colleagues who worked there

2273
01:18:05,189 --> 01:18:03,760
uh none of them ever reported that stuff

2274
01:18:07,270 --> 01:18:05,199
either so

2275
01:18:09,669 --> 01:18:07,280
but then again we didn't have cameras

2276
01:18:14,470 --> 01:18:09,679
and stuff out there it was just us

2277
01:18:18,709 --> 01:18:16,229
don't get me started and the fact that

2278
01:18:19,910 --> 01:18:18,719
like you had a better camera personally

2279
01:18:21,590 --> 01:18:19,920
then

2280
01:18:23,910 --> 01:18:21,600
we won't go there that's that's another

2281
01:18:26,950 --> 01:18:23,920
conversation um

2282
01:18:28,310 --> 01:18:26,960
uh moving back to uh i guess area 51 for

2283
01:18:31,590 --> 01:18:28,320
a moment um

2284
01:18:33,910 --> 01:18:31,600
i don't ideology on twitter asks chris

2285
01:18:35,830 --> 01:18:33,920
did you ever come into contact with or

2286
01:18:38,070 --> 01:18:35,840
become aware of anything that is

2287
01:18:39,990 --> 01:18:38,080
definitely man-made but would be

2288
01:18:41,590 --> 01:18:40,000
perceived by general populace as

2289
01:18:44,470 --> 01:18:41,600
extraterrestrial

2290
01:18:46,870 --> 01:18:44,480
um anything you could share i understand

2291
01:18:48,390 --> 01:18:46,880
if not but yeah yeah anything like that

2292
01:18:51,270 --> 01:18:48,400
man where it's like

2293
01:18:53,350 --> 01:18:51,280
dude definitely ours but you

2294
01:18:55,590 --> 01:18:53,360
yeah yeah because we always hear that

2295
01:18:57,750 --> 01:18:55,600
idea of like anything going on out there

2296
01:18:59,990 --> 01:18:57,760
with black projects is like

2297
01:19:02,390 --> 01:19:00,000
40 we hear about it the public hears

2298
01:19:03,590 --> 01:19:02,400
about it's 30 40 years later

2299
01:19:05,830 --> 01:19:03,600
yeah i mean

2300
01:19:08,229 --> 01:19:05,840
yeah look at the f-117 project you know

2301
01:19:09,669 --> 01:19:08,239
the f-117 project it was years later

2302
01:19:10,870 --> 01:19:09,679
that the public knew about it so it

2303
01:19:11,830 --> 01:19:10,880
makes you wonder

2304
01:19:13,669 --> 01:19:11,840
you know what do we have in our

2305
01:19:15,270 --> 01:19:13,679
inventory you know

2306
01:19:16,470 --> 01:19:15,280
yeah um

2307
01:19:18,149 --> 01:19:16,480
yeah

2308
01:19:20,790 --> 01:19:18,159
can i confirm or deny

2309
01:19:22,630 --> 01:19:20,800
okay honestly i don't i don't know i

2310
01:19:24,070 --> 01:19:22,640
don't know there

2311
01:19:25,830 --> 01:19:24,080
i don't know

2312
01:19:27,669 --> 01:19:25,840
okay i thought i've seen some pretty

2313
01:19:28,870 --> 01:19:27,679
interesting stuff and i guess i can just

2314
01:19:30,310 --> 01:19:28,880
leave it at that

2315
01:19:32,229 --> 01:19:30,320
i'm just glad we live in the united

2316
01:19:35,110 --> 01:19:32,239
states and we have technology that will

2317
01:19:36,790 --> 01:19:35,120
keep us safe hopefully so

2318
01:19:39,110 --> 01:19:36,800
that's about all i can say

2319
01:19:40,709 --> 01:19:39,120
i'd hey that gives me a little comfort

2320
01:19:41,510 --> 01:19:40,719
knowing that

2321
01:19:44,310 --> 01:19:41,520
um

2322
01:19:47,270 --> 01:19:44,320
emp wrecker on twitter asks was there

2323
01:19:50,709 --> 01:19:47,280
ever any experiment that went wrong

2324
01:19:53,270 --> 01:19:50,719
at skinwalker ranch where like you know

2325
01:19:56,550 --> 01:19:53,280
it was like okay we gotta we gotta not

2326
01:19:59,430 --> 01:19:56,560
mess with this or like abort mission on

2327
01:20:01,990 --> 01:19:59,440
this anything like that

2328
01:20:05,830 --> 01:20:02,000
uh besides myself being the experiment

2329
01:20:08,870 --> 01:20:05,840
kidding joking um no semi joking yeah

2330
01:20:10,950 --> 01:20:08,880
yeah right now we had

2331
01:20:12,790 --> 01:20:10,960
we did a remote viewing experiment once

2332
01:20:15,110 --> 01:20:12,800
and i knew it kind of got some negative

2333
01:20:17,110 --> 01:20:15,120
feedback from another officer

2334
01:20:18,870 --> 01:20:17,120
um

2335
01:20:21,270 --> 01:20:18,880
i never knew i never knew the end result

2336
01:20:22,390 --> 01:20:21,280
from that experiment i wish i did

2337
01:20:24,470 --> 01:20:22,400
um

2338
01:20:25,750 --> 01:20:24,480
other experiments

2339
01:20:27,830 --> 01:20:25,760
i guess if you call them experiment

2340
01:20:29,669 --> 01:20:27,840
we're sitting inside homestead 2

2341
01:20:31,990 --> 01:20:29,679
uh trying to make contact with the

2342
01:20:35,430 --> 01:20:32,000
paranormal or whatever

2343
01:20:37,990 --> 01:20:35,440
um that was pretty dicey i know one guy

2344
01:20:39,910 --> 01:20:38,000
literally drove himself insane

2345
01:20:42,470 --> 01:20:39,920
doing that so that that was a big red

2346
01:20:44,830 --> 01:20:42,480
flag that's about all i can remember

2347
01:20:46,950 --> 01:20:44,840
okay you know

2348
01:20:49,189 --> 01:20:46,960
okay it wasn't i mean we did experiments

2349
01:20:51,669 --> 01:20:49,199
but it wasn't that many

2350
01:20:54,310 --> 01:20:51,679
you know i came in in 2010 kind of the

2351
01:20:55,350 --> 01:20:54,320
very end of the project you know there

2352
01:20:57,110 --> 01:20:55,360
was

2353
01:20:58,629 --> 01:20:57,120
only a small handful of us out there

2354
01:21:01,830 --> 01:20:58,639
operating

2355
01:21:03,830 --> 01:21:01,840
so i know maybe guys before me

2356
01:21:05,110 --> 01:21:03,840
maybe did more stuff i don't know i know

2357
01:21:06,390 --> 01:21:05,120
i've reached out to some of the guys who

2358
01:21:07,110 --> 01:21:06,400
were before they were out there before

2359
01:21:10,390 --> 01:21:07,120
me

2360
01:21:13,189 --> 01:21:10,400
thing so i don't know

2361
01:21:16,149 --> 01:21:13,199
okay yeah that's totally fair um

2362
01:21:18,470 --> 01:21:16,159
robert on facebook asks are you familiar

2363
01:21:20,709 --> 01:21:18,480
with any teleportation

2364
01:21:22,870 --> 01:21:20,719
technology such as jump rooms portals

2365
01:21:25,189 --> 01:21:22,880
stargates we kind of touched on that

2366
01:21:28,070 --> 01:21:25,199
with the portal thing but um yeah in

2367
01:21:30,709 --> 01:21:28,080
your you know your experience working at

2368
01:21:31,830 --> 01:21:30,719
these top secret locations and stuff was

2369
01:21:34,550 --> 01:21:31,840
that ever

2370
01:21:37,030 --> 01:21:34,560
conversation or are we still nowhere

2371
01:21:39,350 --> 01:21:37,040
near that sort of technology i haven't i

2372
01:21:41,270 --> 01:21:39,360
honestly don't know i mean yeah

2373
01:21:42,390 --> 01:21:41,280
i have no idea i

2374
01:21:44,390 --> 01:21:42,400
there's some very

2375
01:21:47,510 --> 01:21:44,400
smart people that work

2376
01:21:50,229 --> 01:21:47,520
at the test site in 51 that are

2377
01:21:52,390 --> 01:21:50,239
very very smart very intelligent so who

2378
01:21:53,990 --> 01:21:52,400
knows i don't know i can't confirm

2379
01:21:56,550 --> 01:21:54,000
because i i'm only like to say stuff

2380
01:21:58,470 --> 01:21:56,560
that i can prove you know or the second

2381
01:22:00,310 --> 01:21:58,480
second witness or something but i never

2382
01:22:03,669 --> 01:22:00,320
see anything personal like that

2383
01:22:07,270 --> 01:22:03,679
no yeah okay yeah that's totally fair uh

2384
01:22:09,030 --> 01:22:07,280
the one revolution on twitter asks um

2385
01:22:11,910 --> 01:22:09,040
does s4

2386
01:22:14,390 --> 01:22:11,920
exist this supposed

2387
01:22:17,030 --> 01:22:14,400
location in a hangar out there at groom

2388
01:22:19,430 --> 01:22:17,040
lake that bob lazar has talked about um

2389
01:22:22,709 --> 01:22:19,440
i guess to kind of play off of that this

2390
01:22:23,590 --> 01:22:22,719
whole idea of you know area 51 in

2391
01:22:26,229 --> 01:22:23,600
general

2392
01:22:29,030 --> 01:22:26,239
it's such a part of mythology now you

2393
01:22:33,270 --> 01:22:29,040
want to go to the gates get a selfie you

2394
01:22:36,470 --> 01:22:33,280
had this storm area 51 thing so the

2395
01:22:38,790 --> 01:22:36,480
it to me that just screams anything

2396
01:22:40,950 --> 01:22:38,800
really sensitive that was going on there

2397
01:22:42,709 --> 01:22:40,960
was probably moved somewhere else i

2398
01:22:45,350 --> 01:22:42,719
could be completely

2399
01:22:48,629 --> 01:22:45,360
off on that but um yeah what do you make

2400
01:22:52,310 --> 01:22:48,639
of the claims of this s4 location does

2401
01:22:54,709 --> 01:22:52,320
that resonate at all with you and also

2402
01:22:56,550 --> 01:22:54,719
underground facilities i mean i'm sure

2403
01:22:59,030 --> 01:22:56,560
we have tons of those in the united

2404
01:23:02,550 --> 01:22:59,040
states um what is your best guess of

2405
01:23:04,790 --> 01:23:02,560
what area 52 might be i guess so yeah

2406
01:23:08,390 --> 01:23:04,800
two-pronged question there i guess yeah

2407
01:23:10,229 --> 01:23:08,400
i've never seen personally at s4 i

2408
01:23:12,229 --> 01:23:10,239
it wouldn't surprise me if it exists it

2409
01:23:14,790 --> 01:23:12,239
would not have surprised me one bit

2410
01:23:17,030 --> 01:23:14,800
because the the site is so big there's

2411
01:23:19,110 --> 01:23:17,040
so much areas to cover

2412
01:23:20,709 --> 01:23:19,120
um and there's some areas believe it or

2413
01:23:22,790 --> 01:23:20,719
not we're not even allowed access even

2414
01:23:25,510 --> 01:23:22,800
for work security and and police out

2415
01:23:27,590 --> 01:23:25,520
there there's some areas that are so

2416
01:23:30,470 --> 01:23:27,600
so uh secret that you can't even go on

2417
01:23:32,709 --> 01:23:30,480
yourself with acute clearance

2418
01:23:34,550 --> 01:23:32,719
um so yeah i mean there's

2419
01:23:36,470 --> 01:23:34,560
i mean there's so much stuff online you

2420
01:23:39,350 --> 01:23:36,480
can look at for the nevada test site

2421
01:23:42,149 --> 01:23:39,360
there's the una uh hangar that's you

2422
01:23:44,149 --> 01:23:42,159
know nothing a thousand feet underground

2423
01:23:46,070 --> 01:23:44,159
laboratory there's all kinds of stuff

2424
01:23:48,470 --> 01:23:46,080
you know i actually i have a whole bunch

2425
01:23:50,790 --> 01:23:48,480
of uh working there i took a bunch of

2426
01:23:52,950 --> 01:23:50,800
pap there are free pamphlets about the

2427
01:23:54,229 --> 01:23:52,960
history of the nevada test site really

2428
01:23:55,669 --> 01:23:54,239
cool stuff you know i think you can go

2429
01:23:57,669 --> 01:23:55,679
online and find a lot of stuff and it

2430
01:23:58,870 --> 01:23:57,679
probably surprised a lot of people

2431
01:24:00,229 --> 01:23:58,880
some of the stuff that's available

2432
01:24:03,270 --> 01:24:00,239
online about

2433
01:24:04,070 --> 01:24:03,280
nevada test site and air 51 too

2434
01:24:06,149 --> 01:24:04,080
but

2435
01:24:08,149 --> 01:24:06,159
it probably does exist s4 i'm assuming

2436
01:24:09,669 --> 01:24:08,159
it probably does there's a lot of

2437
01:24:11,350 --> 01:24:09,679
a lot of weird stuff out there so who

2438
01:24:12,870 --> 01:24:11,360
knows

2439
01:24:16,390 --> 01:24:12,880
but i've never personally been there

2440
01:24:20,070 --> 01:24:16,400
myself but the next area 52

2441
01:24:25,030 --> 01:24:22,149
wyoming

2442
01:24:29,110 --> 01:24:25,040
okay

2443
01:24:33,510 --> 01:24:31,430
there you go guys everyone start going

2444
01:24:34,790 --> 01:24:33,520
to wyoming and uh start from there

2445
01:24:36,390 --> 01:24:34,800
that's just my guess i mean there's

2446
01:24:38,229 --> 01:24:36,400
other places too i mean i don't know i

2447
01:24:40,870 --> 01:24:38,239
mean yeah of course

2448
01:24:43,110 --> 01:24:40,880
who knows that's totally fair um

2449
01:24:46,950 --> 01:24:43,120
awesome man well hey i want to give you

2450
01:24:49,270 --> 01:24:46,960
um these final moments here to uh one

2451
01:24:50,149 --> 01:24:49,280
one of the best quotes that i pulled

2452
01:24:51,669 --> 01:24:50,159
from

2453
01:24:53,990 --> 01:24:51,679
something you said on the skinwalker

2454
01:24:56,550 --> 01:24:54,000
ranch television show and brandon fugle

2455
01:24:59,270 --> 01:24:56,560
even tweeted this out a quote from you

2456
01:25:00,709 --> 01:24:59,280
because it was it encompasses everything

2457
01:25:03,189 --> 01:25:00,719
and you mentioned it earlier in this

2458
01:25:04,950 --> 01:25:03,199
conversation of this is bigger than a

2459
01:25:07,189 --> 01:25:04,960
scientific experiment bigger than a

2460
01:25:08,310 --> 01:25:07,199
government contract it's bigger than all

2461
01:25:10,390 --> 01:25:08,320
of us so

2462
01:25:12,790 --> 01:25:10,400
i'd love to know what does that truly

2463
01:25:14,070 --> 01:25:12,800
mean to you and what are some of the

2464
01:25:16,470 --> 01:25:14,080
final words you want to leave our

2465
01:25:20,149 --> 01:25:16,480
audience with with all of this whether

2466
01:25:21,750 --> 01:25:20,159
it's the ufo topic skinwalker ranch um

2467
01:25:25,270 --> 01:25:21,760
yeah what do you want to leave people

2468
01:25:27,110 --> 01:25:25,280
with uh before we we wrap things up here

2469
01:25:29,189 --> 01:25:27,120
yeah um

2470
01:25:31,590 --> 01:25:29,199
yeah i do believe the ranch the whole

2471
01:25:33,350 --> 01:25:31,600
uintah basin is bigger than

2472
01:25:35,350 --> 01:25:33,360
what people realize

2473
01:25:37,030 --> 01:25:35,360
you know there's real

2474
01:25:39,189 --> 01:25:37,040
there's real history out there you know

2475
01:25:42,709 --> 01:25:39,199
we called the paranormal the phenomenon

2476
01:25:44,550 --> 01:25:42,719
when in reality it's considered culture

2477
01:25:45,590 --> 01:25:44,560
in indigenous tribes it's part of the

2478
01:25:47,189 --> 01:25:45,600
culture

2479
01:25:49,430 --> 01:25:47,199
like i said we're behind we're behind

2480
01:25:50,790 --> 01:25:49,440
the curve here understanding

2481
01:25:55,110 --> 01:25:50,800
um

2482
01:25:57,189 --> 01:25:55,120
all that stuff so i really believe

2483
01:25:59,830 --> 01:25:57,199
the the native american history is the

2484
01:26:01,430 --> 01:25:59,840
most important aspect in my opinion

2485
01:26:04,229 --> 01:26:01,440
and that's just because how much i've

2486
01:26:05,590 --> 01:26:04,239
invested looking for that type of stuff

2487
01:26:07,110 --> 01:26:05,600
and i think that's what i mean when i

2488
01:26:08,550 --> 01:26:07,120
say it's bigger than all of us because

2489
01:26:10,950 --> 01:26:08,560
there is

2490
01:26:12,149 --> 01:26:10,960
stuff that's out there that's just

2491
01:26:14,149 --> 01:26:12,159
really

2492
01:26:16,229 --> 01:26:14,159
blows your mind like what is going on

2493
01:26:18,870 --> 01:26:16,239
what happened out here there's so many

2494
01:26:20,070 --> 01:26:18,880
overlapping layers of not not just the

2495
01:26:22,390 --> 01:26:20,080
native american astronaut but there was

2496
01:26:24,470 --> 01:26:22,400
like the meteorite strikes the gilsonite

2497
01:26:26,390 --> 01:26:24,480
the magnetic anomalies

2498
01:26:28,790 --> 01:26:26,400
uh it seems like that whole section of

2499
01:26:31,189 --> 01:26:28,800
utah is just like a

2500
01:26:32,709 --> 01:26:31,199
paranormal hotspot of all kinds of stuff

2501
01:26:34,870 --> 01:26:32,719
but a lot of it all relates back to

2502
01:26:36,470 --> 01:26:34,880
native american and there's been people

2503
01:26:37,669 --> 01:26:36,480
who've said well

2504
01:26:39,830 --> 01:26:37,679
how come other

2505
01:26:41,830 --> 01:26:39,840
uh indian reservations aren't haunted or

2506
01:26:42,629 --> 01:26:41,840
report this stuff and the truth is they

2507
01:26:44,229 --> 01:26:42,639
do

2508
01:26:46,390 --> 01:26:44,239
yeah there's several there's stuff on

2509
01:26:47,750 --> 01:26:46,400
the the civil rights reservations that

2510
01:26:50,229 --> 01:26:47,760
report this stuff

2511
01:26:52,310 --> 01:26:50,239
i mean my mom was born and raised on or

2512
01:26:54,550 --> 01:26:52,320
she was raised my mom was actually born

2513
01:26:57,030 --> 01:26:54,560
in roswell air force base my grandfather

2514
01:26:58,229 --> 01:26:57,040
was working at roswell air force base

2515
01:27:00,709 --> 01:26:58,239
back in the day

2516
01:27:03,189 --> 01:27:00,719
but my mom actually was they grew up

2517
01:27:04,870 --> 01:27:03,199
right there yeah i i was thinking about

2518
01:27:06,550 --> 01:27:04,880
that today my grandfather worked at

2519
01:27:09,590 --> 01:27:06,560
roswell he was in the air force and my

2520
01:27:13,030 --> 01:27:09,600
mom was born on roswell air force base

2521
01:27:14,950 --> 01:27:13,040
but my mom uh was also raised around a

2522
01:27:17,510 --> 01:27:14,960
lot of uh reservations because my great

2523
01:27:19,590 --> 01:27:17,520
grandfather used to be the subcontractor

2524
01:27:20,470 --> 01:27:19,600
for building schools and churches and

2525
01:27:22,470 --> 01:27:20,480
stuff

2526
01:27:26,149 --> 01:27:22,480
so she was great he was raised in the

2527
01:27:28,950 --> 01:27:26,159
four corners and all those tribes

2528
01:27:30,709 --> 01:27:28,960
talk about ufos star people

2529
01:27:33,270 --> 01:27:30,719
skin walkers werewolves whatever you

2530
01:27:35,590 --> 01:27:33,280
want to call it and i don't know why

2531
01:27:37,510 --> 01:27:35,600
that's just ignored you know it seems

2532
01:27:39,510 --> 01:27:37,520
like

2533
01:27:41,110 --> 01:27:39,520
um it's it's not

2534
01:27:43,189 --> 01:27:41,120
it's just the more pieces to the puzzle

2535
01:27:45,430 --> 01:27:43,199
i guess you know but for me that's what

2536
01:27:47,030 --> 01:27:45,440
i think is the most important you know

2537
01:27:48,550 --> 01:27:47,040
yeah one of the most important aspects i

2538
01:27:50,390 --> 01:27:48,560
hope people take more time into like

2539
01:27:51,270 --> 01:27:50,400
really diving back into those cultures

2540
01:27:54,470 --> 01:27:51,280
and

2541
01:27:57,830 --> 01:27:54,480
before us

2542
01:28:00,390 --> 01:27:57,840
you know and uh i think that's important

2543
01:28:02,390 --> 01:28:00,400
absolutely i love that and you've

2544
01:28:05,030 --> 01:28:02,400
highlighted that so well with the uh

2545
01:28:07,350 --> 01:28:05,040
photography project that you did so in

2546
01:28:09,910 --> 01:28:07,360
the final moments here chris um can you

2547
01:28:12,229 --> 01:28:09,920
tell us where we can find your portfolio

2548
01:28:13,430 --> 01:28:12,239
of all the incredible

2549
01:28:15,189 --> 01:28:13,440
photos you have because i'm going to

2550
01:28:17,830 --> 01:28:15,199
share some of those in the post edit

2551
01:28:20,629 --> 01:28:17,840
here um with the audience if that's okay

2552
01:28:23,189 --> 01:28:20,639
with you and um tell us a little about i

2553
01:28:24,870 --> 01:28:23,199
know you have a film project that might

2554
01:28:26,709 --> 01:28:24,880
be coming up if there's anything you can

2555
01:28:29,030 --> 01:28:26,719
share um i'd love to give you that

2556
01:28:31,590 --> 01:28:29,040
opportunity um yes let us know where we

2557
01:28:33,350 --> 01:28:31,600
can find all your work if you don't mind

2558
01:28:34,950 --> 01:28:33,360
yeah uh terrace matlab you know he's the

2559
01:28:36,229 --> 01:28:34,960
director for the university of maryland

2560
01:28:37,270 --> 01:28:36,239
you know he reached out to me a couple

2561
01:28:38,629 --> 01:28:37,280
years ago

2562
01:28:40,149 --> 01:28:38,639
and we had a star we started a

2563
01:28:41,350 --> 01:28:40,159
conversation

2564
01:28:43,590 --> 01:28:41,360
and um

2565
01:28:45,590 --> 01:28:43,600
uh he had uh you know he at first he

2566
01:28:47,750 --> 01:28:45,600
asked you know to buy some

2567
01:28:49,110 --> 01:28:47,760
prints and i said no i'll just donate

2568
01:28:50,390 --> 01:28:49,120
all of them to the university because i

2569
01:28:52,870 --> 01:28:50,400
want to get more eyes on to the

2570
01:28:54,149 --> 01:28:52,880
situation you know with my photography

2571
01:28:57,189 --> 01:28:54,159
um but

2572
01:29:00,870 --> 01:28:57,199
that archive is online at um

2573
01:29:02,790 --> 01:29:00,880
uh skinwalker ranch uh portfolio.org is

2574
01:29:04,470 --> 01:29:02,800
where you can find that and there's

2575
01:29:06,070 --> 01:29:04,480
gonna be a mini documentary attached to

2576
01:29:08,709 --> 01:29:06,080
that a short one

2577
01:29:10,629 --> 01:29:08,719
and it's gonna have uh my own story in

2578
01:29:12,870 --> 01:29:10,639
it basically and highlighting some of my

2579
01:29:14,629 --> 01:29:12,880
most favorite pictures in it and some of

2580
01:29:17,270 --> 01:29:14,639
the photography that i do as well where

2581
01:29:20,070 --> 01:29:17,280
i take images and i flip them and create

2582
01:29:22,709 --> 01:29:20,080
like ufos out of mesa rocks and

2583
01:29:24,510 --> 01:29:22,719
um stuff like that and

2584
01:29:26,070 --> 01:29:24,520
so yeah and i have a website too

2585
01:29:27,830 --> 01:29:26,080
chrisbartel.com

2586
01:29:30,070 --> 01:29:27,840
i don't update as much as i used to but

2587
01:29:31,669 --> 01:29:30,080
i probably should do a new re-haul

2588
01:29:33,510 --> 01:29:31,679
and put some more pictures on there and

2589
01:29:35,270 --> 01:29:33,520
stuff but you can find some of my other

2590
01:29:37,830 --> 01:29:35,280
projects i've worked on

2591
01:29:39,669 --> 01:29:37,840
and so my old las vegas portfolio

2592
01:29:43,350 --> 01:29:39,679
because i have a huge las vegas

2593
01:29:46,229 --> 01:29:43,360
portfolio of like 20 000 images i mean

2594
01:29:47,990 --> 01:29:46,239
you know 20 plus years in las vegas

2595
01:29:49,510 --> 01:29:48,000
i kind of treated uh

2596
01:29:51,350 --> 01:29:49,520
like ansel adams is my one of my

2597
01:29:54,550 --> 01:29:51,360
favorite photographers so i wanted to

2598
01:29:56,870 --> 01:29:54,560
create this approach to las vegas like

2599
01:29:59,030 --> 01:29:56,880
if ansel adams came to las vegas how

2600
01:30:01,189 --> 01:29:59,040
would he photograph las vegas so a lot

2601
01:30:02,550 --> 01:30:01,199
of my a lot of my las vegas pictures are

2602
01:30:04,229 --> 01:30:02,560
on black and white which are kind of

2603
01:30:06,790 --> 01:30:04,239
cool or have that you know

2604
01:30:08,550 --> 01:30:06,800
feel to them and so uh yeah much some of

2605
01:30:09,350 --> 01:30:08,560
my vegas pictures are on there as well

2606
01:30:14,070 --> 01:30:09,360
and

2607
01:30:16,550 --> 01:30:14,080
um

2608
01:30:18,470 --> 01:30:16,560
you know places in utah i'm going back

2609
01:30:19,669 --> 01:30:18,480
to las vegas here pretty soon so i can't

2610
01:30:20,870 --> 01:30:19,679
it's been a couple years since i've been

2611
01:30:22,470 --> 01:30:20,880
out there so

2612
01:30:24,149 --> 01:30:22,480
las vegas is one of those unique cities

2613
01:30:27,030 --> 01:30:24,159
that every week the whole landscape

2614
01:30:29,669 --> 01:30:27,040
changes so you know the downtown

2615
01:30:31,030 --> 01:30:29,679
uh the canvas is always changing so i'm

2616
01:30:33,430 --> 01:30:31,040
always going down there finding new

2617
01:30:35,750 --> 01:30:33,440
things to photograph and stuff

2618
01:30:38,229 --> 01:30:35,760
there's i have a whole uh

2619
01:30:40,790 --> 01:30:38,239
graffiti art gallery of las vegas

2620
01:30:42,470 --> 01:30:40,800
spanning 15 20 years i used to go to

2621
01:30:44,950 --> 01:30:42,480
like some of the worst parts of las

2622
01:30:47,270 --> 01:30:44,960
vegas and photograph some amazing

2623
01:30:48,790 --> 01:30:47,280
graffiti pieces down there and i should

2624
01:30:49,990 --> 01:30:48,800
probably share more of that stuff online

2625
01:30:51,350 --> 01:30:50,000
too i think people might like to see

2626
01:31:01,110 --> 01:30:51,360
that

2627
01:31:02,950 --> 01:31:01,120
look at all of this i think because

2628
01:31:04,390 --> 01:31:02,960
we're all growing we're all learning

2629
01:31:05,430 --> 01:31:04,400
we're all um

2630
01:31:08,629 --> 01:31:05,440
we're all

2631
01:31:12,629 --> 01:31:08,639
part of some grand uh performance piece

2632
01:31:15,189 --> 01:31:12,639
or art exhibition that's yet to be fully

2633
01:31:17,110 --> 01:31:15,199
uh realized but i think we're we're

2634
01:31:19,990 --> 01:31:17,120
getting there man and i'm so happy you

2635
01:31:21,510 --> 01:31:20,000
did come forward um this i i i'm gonna

2636
01:31:22,550 --> 01:31:21,520
say this on the record this has been one

2637
01:31:24,470 --> 01:31:22,560
of my

2638
01:31:28,149 --> 01:31:24,480
favorite conversations on summer in the

2639
01:31:30,470 --> 01:31:28,159
skies since the very beginning so

2640
01:31:32,229 --> 01:31:30,480
i gotta thank you man like you shared a

2641
01:31:35,030 --> 01:31:32,239
lot with us tonight that you didn't have

2642
01:31:37,030 --> 01:31:35,040
to so i truly appreciate that yeah you

2643
01:31:38,149 --> 01:31:37,040
know i think i feel like i'm like i said

2644
01:31:41,270 --> 01:31:38,159
i'm just trying to really close a

2645
01:31:43,430 --> 01:31:41,280
chapter and um

2646
01:31:45,669 --> 01:31:43,440
and doing some of these shows helps me

2647
01:31:48,390 --> 01:31:45,679
talk and vent a little bit and i don't

2648
01:31:50,229 --> 01:31:48,400
mean to come across like uh arrogant or

2649
01:31:52,470 --> 01:31:50,239
mr know-it-all and i

2650
01:31:53,750 --> 01:31:52,480
i'm just i'm trying to be genuine in my

2651
01:31:55,990 --> 01:31:53,760
approach

2652
01:31:56,950 --> 01:31:56,000
and uh

2653
01:31:59,189 --> 01:31:56,960
that

2654
01:32:14,790 --> 01:31:59,199
i

2655
01:32:25,910 --> 01:32:14,800
and

2656
01:32:27,830 --> 01:32:25,920
pleasure being able to share time with

2657
01:32:29,830 --> 01:32:27,840
you and i really enjoy my time here so

2658
01:32:31,669 --> 01:32:29,840
thank you for giving me the platform an

2659
01:32:34,390 --> 01:32:31,679
opportunity to talk a little bit about

2660
01:32:36,229 --> 01:32:34,400
uh my past and what i've done

2661
01:32:38,390 --> 01:32:36,239
my absolute pleasure and thank you for

2662
01:32:41,730 --> 01:32:38,400
your service chris thank you appreciate